Storm the Castle B

sandpas
Member
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:30 am
Division: B
State: OH
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby sandpas » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:14 pm

tag wrote:The projectile just stayed in the sling so we changed the design. We don't get great height but it is very precise everytime so I'm not sure I want to change it at this point with regionals tomorrow :(

You're right. Don't change it for tomorrow, but post again if you need help and let us know how you did. Good luck.

BMSscienceguy
Member
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:15 am
Division: B
State: NC
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby BMSscienceguy » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:25 am

tag wrote:...We have a hinged counterweight trebuchet with a wire "scoop" shape to hold the projectile (not a sling). We tried a sling with our trebuchet and it wasn't successful. Needless to say it doesn't have a lot of height in shooting the projectile, but is consistent with distance...


We're in the same boat, switching from a sling to a "scoop". My concern is with the energy conservation rule. My understanding is that, with a standard trebuchet, as long as the arm does not move forward at 90degrees or less, that this construction would work. That is, with a scoop attached to the end of the arm, as long as it does not move it forward at 90degrees, this would be permitted.

I have searched the forums, wikis, website, rules book - but do not see anything restricting/permitting a scoop as long as it meets energy rule. Can someone else share their thoughts on this and help put my mind to ease?
...
3rd Year Coach, Red Devil Science
2012 Regional - UNCW, March 3

chalker
Member
Member
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:30 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby chalker » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:46 pm

BMSscienceguy wrote:I have searched the forums, wikis, website, rules book - but do not see anything restricting/permitting a scoop as long as it meets energy rule. Can someone else share their thoughts on this and help put my mind to ease?


Unofficially, I'd think general rule #2 applies: http://soinc.org/ethics_rules

Student Alumni
National Event Supervisor
National Physical Sciences Rules Committee Chair

BMSscienceguy
Member
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:15 am
Division: B
State: NC
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby BMSscienceguy » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:07 pm

Unofficially, I'd think general rule #2 applies: http://soinc.org/ethics_rules[/quote]

Chalker - thanks for your input. I guess I'm trying to figure out if a sling is "officially" part of a trebuchet, and therefore required. The more research I do, the more I am convinced that it is part of an official trebuchet.
...
3rd Year Coach, Red Devil Science
2012 Regional - UNCW, March 3

chalker
Member
Member
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:30 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby chalker » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:35 pm

BMSscienceguy wrote:Chalker - thanks for your input. I guess I'm trying to figure out if a sling is "officially" part of a trebuchet, and therefore required. The more research I do, the more I am convinced that it is part of an official trebuchet.


And where in the rules do you see the word trebuchet mentioned?

Student Alumni
National Event Supervisor
National Physical Sciences Rules Committee Chair

Friedoyster3
Member
Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:38 pm
Division: C
State: IN
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby Friedoyster3 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:47 pm

Does anyone have any sort of numbers as far as their person farthest distance? I was testing today, and I was getting something close to 20m with 1kg 20g.
University of Michigan Aerospace Engineering
Munster High School, Indiana
2015 Nationals: Bridge 12th; Air Traj 7th; Scrambler 6th; Geo Maps 5th; Team 6th!
"Science Olympiad is, was, and always will be one of the greatest things that ever happened to me."

tag
Member
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 am
Division: B
State: GA
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby tag » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:46 pm

We have a scoop and were not penalized for it at regionals. We got 7th place and our first shot was a hit. Heavier weight counterweight wasn't as good but was because we didnt have the trebuchet set up right and didn't realize it until it was too late, hence the 7th place. It's not a matter of distance you can throw as much as accuracy. If you say to put the castle at 3m and hit it, that's far better than 20m and missing.

Friedoyster3
Member
Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:38 pm
Division: C
State: IN
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby Friedoyster3 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:06 pm

tag wrote:It's not a matter of distance you can throw as much as accuracy. If you say to put the castle at 3m and hit it, that's far better than 20m and missing.

That's not really true because a 1meter miss at 20m still beats a 3 m hit
University of Michigan Aerospace Engineering
Munster High School, Indiana
2015 Nationals: Bridge 12th; Air Traj 7th; Scrambler 6th; Geo Maps 5th; Team 6th!
"Science Olympiad is, was, and always will be one of the greatest things that ever happened to me."

sandpas
Member
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:30 am
Division: B
State: OH
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby sandpas » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:15 am

Nice job getting 7th place Tag. Our Regional is this weekend. What were the weights and projectiles? Oyster is right about the scores. If you stay in the target at 3m you will get 3.9 points. If you miss a 20m target by 5m you still get 5 points. If you are going to states you should try and make the sling work. You'll get a lot more points.

tag
Member
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 am
Division: B
State: GA
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby tag » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:23 am

The projectile and counterweights were odd numbers so I don't remember them exactly. I know one projectile was 42.1g and the counterweights were also with decimal numbers too. I have read and re-read this years scoring for storm the castle and don't see anywhere where it states extra points for distance. Scoring is total distance(td)-3 times accuracy + bonus points for hitting target. I would love a better explanation to understand how the scoring works with longer distances since it isn't making sense to me based on the rule book info for this year.

crazyhorse
Member
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:34 am
Division: B
State: CA
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby crazyhorse » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:03 am

tag wrote:The projectile and counterweights were odd numbers so I don't remember them exactly. I know one projectile was 42.1g and the counterweights were also with decimal numbers too. I have read and re-read this years scoring for storm the castle and don't see anywhere where it states extra points for distance. Scoring is total distance(td)-3 times accuracy + bonus points for hitting target. I would love a better explanation to understand how the scoring works with longer distances since it isn't making sense to me based on the rule book info for this year.


The last post explained it very well. You dont get extra points for a farther distance, you just get more points. Team A chooses a target distance (td) of 3 meters. They start with a base of 3 points. They hit and land in the target. They get an accuracy bonus (ab) of (td)x .3. 3 x .3 = .9. (td) of 3 plus (ab) of +.9 = score of 3.9. Team B chooses a (td) of 20 meters and start with a base of 20 points. They miss the target by 5 meters. They get an (ab) of the miss (5 meters) x 3. 5 x 3 =15. (td) of 20 minus (ab) of 15 = score of 5.

You dont get bonus points for a longer distance, you just get moe to start. It is a combination of accuracy and distance in this event. If you are picking a target distance where u can miss by 2-3 meters based on data, ur asking to not medal. Based on ur data collection, pick a (td) u can get close to or hit with the given counterweight and projectile mass.

sandpas
Member
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:30 am
Division: B
State: OH
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby sandpas » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:24 pm

There is a scoring spreadsheet at the official site that does the calculations for you. http://www.soinc.org/storm_the_castle_b You can plug in the numbers and see what scores you get.

User avatar
mtheleman
Member
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:04 pm
Division: B
State: KS
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby mtheleman » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:24 pm

BMSscienceguy wrote:
tag wrote:...We have a hinged counterweight trebuchet with a wire "scoop" shape to hold the projectile (not a sling). We tried a sling with our trebuchet and it wasn't successful. Needless to say it doesn't have a lot of height in shooting the projectile, but is consistent with distance...


We're in the same boat, switching from a sling to a "scoop". My concern is with the energy conservation rule. My understanding is that, with a standard trebuchet, as long as the arm does not move forward at 90degrees or less, that this construction would work. That is, with a scoop attached to the end of the arm, as long as it does not move it forward at 90degrees, this would be permitted.

I have searched the forums, wikis, website, rules book - but do not see anything restricting/permitting a scoop as long as it meets energy rule. Can someone else share their thoughts on this and help put my mind to ease?


I have seen several interesting designs with scoops. You could potentially place the projectile closer to the end of the action of the arm. That would allow the arm to build up more momentum before carrying the projectile.
Michael Phelps trains with Chuck Norris swimming behind him.

Friedoyster3
Member
Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:38 pm
Division: C
State: IN
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby Friedoyster3 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:55 am

Does anyone have any tips as far as sling shape/design qualities. I've noticed that the projectile occasionally slips out of the sling some how and is ejected in the opposite direction and I'm fairly confident it is due to the sling. Is there one universal sling shape that fixes this problem?
University of Michigan Aerospace Engineering
Munster High School, Indiana
2015 Nationals: Bridge 12th; Air Traj 7th; Scrambler 6th; Geo Maps 5th; Team 6th!
"Science Olympiad is, was, and always will be one of the greatest things that ever happened to me."

Tramsarran
Member
Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:11 am
Division: C
State: NY
Location: Life
Contact:

Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby Tramsarran » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:03 am

That's part of what I feared this year using a sling, and I witnessed the disadvatages of an improperly contructed string last year with my team's trebuchet. I was afraid that either the object would get caught in the sling, it would fall out too early at low launch speeds, or it wouldn't launch as confidently as with the cup I used at Regionals. Won 4th place, and that was due to my mistake of selecting a heavier projectile over the lighter one, and landing .5m from the target once.
Goodbye Science Olympiad, until next year.


Return to “2012 Build Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest