Storm the Castle B

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby chalker » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:04 pm

Canesmadscientist wrote:Im aware, its that webpage that i dont understand.



You don't understand the webpage or the energy rule tip sheet PDF that you can download from the webpage? Can you be more specific about what parts are confusing? Perhaps quote some of the language you don't understand?

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby chalker » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:06 pm

quadmaster wrote:Also, are we allowed to use a laptop computer to predict our range if we don't impound it?


I think rule 2.c. is pretty explicit about everything needing to be impounded. But regardless of that, note that general rule #4 (http://soinc.org/ethics_rules) generally prohibits laptops and similar devices from events. Of course this is not the place for official clarifications.....

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby sciencegeek999 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:32 pm

My brother doing this event.
His question: Is there a limit or guidelines to tallness or length?

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby LKN » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:51 pm

Yes, and your brother needs to learn how to use the internet and read. The trebuchet must fit into an imaginary 65cmx65cmx65cm cube.
- LKN
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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby chalker » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:15 am

LKN wrote:Yes, and your brother needs to learn how to use the internet and read. The trebuchet must fit into an imaginary 65cmx65cmx65cm cube.



No need to be snide. But the take home point is that the rules have a LOT of specific requirements (including size requirements) that anyone participating in this event needs to read and understand or else they'll likely show up and be immediately DQ'd and/or physically unable to compete.

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Canesmadscientist
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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby Canesmadscientist » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:31 pm

This
type
of
device
needs
to
be
checked
in
the
same
manner
as
a
fixed
Fulcrum
device( i dont understand this, because)
The
fixed
fulcrum
trebuchet
is
the
easiest
to
check.
A
fixed
point
device
without
a
sling
(like
a
catapult)
should
be
tested
in
the
same
manner
as
a
fixed
Fulcrum
trebuchet.
1. The
device
should
be
set
up
as
if
the
student
is
ready
to
launch
the
device
without
the
counterweight
and
projectile
(the
sling
should
be
attached
to
the
arm).
2. The
student
should
then
release
the
triggering
device
and
the
arm
should
not
move
in
the
direction
of
launch.
3. The
arm
should
be
raised
several
inches
and
released,
resulting
in
the
arm
either
staying
in
place
or
returning
to
launch
position.
The
device
should
be
checked
the
same
way
in
several
positions
up
to
the
90
degree
position.
4. During
both
of
these
types
of
test,
if
the
arm
moves
slowly
in
the
launch
direction
and
stops
on
its
own,
before
the
arm
reaches
90
degrees
in
relation
to
the
floor,
the
energy
rule
is
not
violated
(provided
there
is
nothing
else
in
place
to
stop
the
arm
from
moving
to
the
90
degree
position.)

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby chalker » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:42 pm

Canesmadscientist wrote:This
type
of
device
........
degree
position.)



Any reason you put a single word on each line? I think there is a question buried in there, but it's impossible for me (or anyone) to read. Can you please repost your question or edit your original post?

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby quizbowl » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:48 pm

Canesmadscientist wrote:This type of device needs to be checked in the same manner as a fixed Fulcrum device( i dont understand this, because) The fixed fulcrum trebuchet is the easiest to check. A fixed point device without a sling (like a catapult) should be tested in the same manner as a fixed Fulcrum trebuchet. 1. The device should be set up as if the student is ready to launch the device without the counterweight and projectile (the sling should be attached to the arm). 2. The student should then release the triggering device and the arm should not move in the direction of. 3. The arm should be raised several inches and released, resulting in the either staying in place or returning to launch position. The device should be checked the same way in several positions up to the 90 degree position. 4. During both of these types of test, if the arm moves slowly in the launch direction and stops on its own, before the arm reaches 90 degrees in relation to the floor, the energy rule is not violated provided there is nothing in place to stop the arm from moving to 90 degree position.)

Wow, that was a doozy...
2010: 5th in NYS
2011: 4th in NYS
2012: 3rd in NYS

<quizbowl> ey kid ya want some shortbread
<EASTstroudsburg13> I don't know why, but I just can't bring myself to delete this post.

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby chalker » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:14 pm

quizbowl wrote:
Canesmadscientist wrote:This type of device needs to be checked in the same manner as a fixed Fulcrum device( i dont understand this, because) The fixed fulcrum trebuchet is the easiest to check. A fixed point device without a sling (like a catapult) should be tested in the same manner as a fixed Fulcrum trebuchet. 1. The device should be set up as if the student is ready to launch the device without the counterweight and projectile (the sling should be attached to the arm). 2. The student should then release the triggering device and the arm should not move in the direction of. 3. The arm should be raised several inches and released, resulting in the either staying in place or returning to launch position. The device should be checked the same way in several positions up to the 90 degree position. 4. During both of these types of test, if the arm moves slowly in the launch direction and stops on its own, before the arm reaches 90 degrees in relation to the floor, the energy rule is not violated provided there is nothing in place to stop the arm from moving to 90 degree position.)

Wow, that was a doozy...



I'm still confused as to what the specific question is. All I see in there is 'i dont understand this, because', but nothing else follows that (all the other text is taken directly from the source document). The steps 1-4 listed seem very descriptive and easy to follow to me. Can you please spell out more specifically where the source of your confusion is?

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby wlsguy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:11 am

I have a question (and have already submitted a clarification) but wondered what everyone else thought.

Are students allowed to impound and use additional graphs/data tables?
Section 2A says they must prepare "up to 5 plots" but 2C allows for "tools, notes, copies of graphs, etc"

Our team usually submits the required 5 graphs but uses a data table with additional information like pin angle, pouch placement, etc.
These additional notes don't translate well to graphs.

At Wright State, additional notes were not allowed (for the first time ever)

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby chalker » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:47 am

wlsguy wrote:I have a question (and have already submitted a clarification) but wondered what everyone else thought.

Are students allowed to impound and use additional graphs/data tables?
Section 2A says they must prepare "up to 5 plots" but 2C allows for "tools, notes, copies of graphs, etc"

Our team usually submits the required 5 graphs but uses a data table with additional information like pin angle, pouch placement, etc.
These additional notes don't translate well to graphs.

At Wright State, additional notes were not allowed (for the first time ever)



This is really surprising to me. I wish you would have come to HQ and submitted an appeal so I knew about it. While this of course is not the place for official clarifications, I feel that rule 2.c. (which explicitly calls out 'notes' as part of the supplies that can be impounded and used) applies to this issue.

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby wlsguy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:01 pm

chalker wrote:
wlsguy wrote:I have a question (and have already submitted a clarification) but wondered what everyone else thought.

Are students allowed to impound and use additional graphs/data tables?
Section 2A says they must prepare "up to 5 plots" but 2C allows for "tools, notes, copies of graphs, etc"

Our team usually submits the required 5 graphs but uses a data table with additional information like pin angle, pouch placement, etc.
These additional notes don't translate well to graphs.

At Wright State, additional notes were not allowed (for the first time ever)



This is really surprising to me. I wish you would have come to HQ and submitted an appeal so I knew about it. While this of course is not the place for official clarifications, I feel that rule 2.c. (which explicitly calls out 'notes' as part of the supplies that can be impounded and used) applies to this issue.



Thanks.
I was running my event and didn't know about it until the end of the day (at the awards) and it was obviously too late to change anything.
I can't say it would have changed anything but the kids set the pin angles by memory and basically wasted the first shot at each distance fining out if they remembered correctly.

It was obvious to me that additional notes, if impounded, could be used but not everyone thinks the same way, hence my clarification.

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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby bigbangtheory » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:53 pm

Quick question: when it says the device must fit in a 65x65x65cm cube does it mean it can't be over 65cm tall? The rules weren't very clear, it never said anything about a height restriction, but it does say CUBE.
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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby AlphaTauri » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:54 pm

That would be correct.

Imagine a cube 65cm x 65cm x 65cm. Now fit your trebuchet into that cube.
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Re: Storm the Castle B

Postby bigbangtheory » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Thank you, I was soooo confused.
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