Forestry B/C

[icyfire]

I'm having a lot of trouble identifying and distinguishing different Elms by leaf. What are some distinctions between the Hackberry leaf, American Elm leaf, and the Slippery Elm leaf?

I'm also having a hard time ID-ing between the Eastern Hophornbeam, the American Hornbeam, the Yellow Birch, and the Sweet Birch.

thanks in advance!

[PacificGoldenPlover]

In general, I tend to think of Hornbeam as being thinner and ovoid (like a willow) than hophornbeam.
Hackberry is shaped like a scalene triangle, very different from slippery and american elms. The best way to identify Sweet and yellow birches is by their bark; they are different colors.

[icyfire]

Alright thanks!! I feel like a super noob aha, but I've got 2 more things I'm just getting stuck on.

1. Distinguishing needles + Cones in the Pine Family. Like, pretty much every tree there I have no clue what to look for to distinguish between them. I know that most people generally say this is the hardest part of forestry...So ANY tips at all about this would be awesome!

2. NY List has Black Ash, Green Ash, and White Ash. Sorry for bothering those who don't need to know Black and Green ash! However I'm staring at these leaves and I can't make out anything to distinguish between them

any help at all would be really appreciated! thanks!

[PacificGoldenPlover]

Well, what I tend to do is just separate out the ones that are really easy to identify, and then classify the rest.
Easy to identify:
Sugar Pine (Giant cone, 5 needles/bundle)
Western White Pine (8" cone, 5 needles/bundle)
Eastern White Pine (5" cone, 5 needles/bundle)
Bristlecone Pine (5 short needles/bundle, bristles on cone)
Whitebark Pine (5 short needles/bundle, no bristles on cone)
Red Pine (2 long needles/bundle)
Jack Pine ( 2 short needles/bundle, small smooth cone)
Lodgepole Pine ( 2 short needles/bundle, prickly cone)

Another idea which I used was separating the pine family into 3 groups: 2,3, and 5 needles. Then, trying to find differences among cones between members of the same group. They probably would only have people identify needles of very distinctive specimens, like Singleleaf Pinyon, Jack, Longleaf, and Shortleaf Pine.

[icyfire]

Thanks!

@Fellow new yorkers, is there a good way to tell Scarlet Oak and Pin Oak apart by their leaves and/or acorns?

Generally Scarlet oak seems to have more "lobes", but sometimes Pin Oak can have the same number as scarlet oak.

[JSGandora]

Also the thing is, some pines can have different number of needles per bundle on the same tree, which is annoying. I think the only way is to know what one individual needle looks like.

[foreverphysics]

Pines are hard, but once you get into it, it's not so terrible. Shortleaf pines have needles of 3-4 inches and are light green; Virginia pines have needles of 1-2 inches that are twisted and yellowish green; longleaf pines have needles of 8-18 inches and dark green; loblolly pines have needles of 4-8 inches long and are lush green and slightly twisted, etc., etc.
Also, go to an Arboretum somewhere. Those places WILL help you more than you can imagine. Yeah, I'm lucky, having a comprehensive arboretum about ten minutes away from my house, but...

[gneissisnice]

Pines are hard, but once you get into it, it's not so terrible. Shortleaf pines have needles of 3-4 inches and are light green; Virginia pines have needles of 1-2 inches that are twisted and yellowish green; longleaf pines have needles of 8-18 inches and dark green; loblolly pines have needles of 4-8 inches long and are lush green and slightly twisted, etc., etc.
Also, go to an Arboretum somewhere. Those places WILL help you more than you can imagine. Yeah, I'm lucky, having a comprehensive arboretum about ten minutes away from my house, but...

It's funny, pretty much the only group I didn't have trouble with was the pine family back when I did this event years ago. I couldn't ID any other specimens, but I could do the pines. Spruces on the other hand....*shudder*

[purplepeopleeater]

I THOUGHT that pines would be the hardests to identify, but the TEXAS pines actually aren't that hard.
at greenhill they used the national list instead of the state list...
still got first, but it caught us off gaurd.

[kateak]

Is is OK for states to put a bunch of trees on the state list that aren't on the national list? The rules say "All questions will be restricted to specimens on the Official National Tree List."

Just wondering because the Michigan list has about 20 extra trees that aren't on the national list.