Ceiling at Nationals

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danyalukin
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Ceiling at Nationals

Post by danyalukin » April 22nd, 2012, 12:28 pm

http://www.scienceolympiad2012.com/wp-c ... enue-2.jpg

Its like a meat-grater for our helicopters.
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by chalker7 » April 22nd, 2012, 5:57 pm

danyalukin wrote:http://www.scienceolympiad2012.com/wp-c ... enue-2.jpg

Its like a meat-grater for our helicopters.
Perhaps, but I suspect a few teams will find decent spots that are free of obstructions. Also, tethering is allowed and described in the rules if a team is that concerned about the environment...
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danyalukin
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by danyalukin » April 22nd, 2012, 8:18 pm

chalker7 wrote:
Also, tethering is allowed and described in the rules if a team is that concerned about the environment...
The rules state that "competitiors must not steer the helicopter"...
Also, the rules state that a cieling without obstructions is preferred over a high ceiling.
Most importantly, such conditions are actually unfair to some teams: Evidently, a chinook helicopter is more likely to get stuck in the rafters than a coaxial helicopter, simply due to its geometry.
Could the competition site be possibly changed to omit good/bad luck from competition?
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by chalker7 » April 22nd, 2012, 8:43 pm

danyalukin wrote:
chalker7 wrote:
Also, tethering is allowed and described in the rules if a team is that concerned about the environment...
The rules state that "competitiors must not steer the helicopter"...
Also, the rules state that a cieling without obstructions is preferred over a high ceiling.
Most importantly, such conditions are actually unfair to some teams: Evidently, a chinook helicopter is more likely to get stuck in the rafters than a coaxial helicopter, simply due to its geometry.
Could the competition site be possibly changed to omit good/bad luck from competition?
I apologize, I forgot that we did not include official language about tethering in the printed rules. Nonetheless, the statement about ceilings are clearly a preference, not a requirement (so as to not disqualify sites, we would prefer the event be run in an less than ideal location than not run at all, which are often the options.)

I fundamentally disagree about the fair/unfair argument. All teams will be presented with the same conditions by the supervisors. Whatever the teams bring is up to them. It is not the job of the supervisors to provide ideal conditions for every potential design (I can think of multiple other designs that might be more likely to hang up than a chinook,) that would be impossible. Instead, it is the job of the supervisor to provide a fair competition that follows the written rules closely. A secondary goal is giving every team the most favorable conditions possible, but we have to settle for consistency when perfection is impossible. And trust me, I take perfecting sites extremely seriously. I was once threatened with having the police called on me when I tried to turn the air conditioning off at a tournament.

And no, we can't change the competition location this late, however we will definitely try to make things as favorable to all of the competitors as possible (but will obviously settle for consistency.)
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by danyalukin » April 22nd, 2012, 8:54 pm

Thank you for the information :)
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by lucwilder42 » April 22nd, 2012, 10:15 pm

chalker7 wrote:
And no, we can't change the competition location this late, however we will definitely try to make things as favorable to all of the competitors as possible (but will obviously settle for consistency.)

I visited the Venue recently and after looking around, I found two auxiliary gyms, one on either side of the main gym, with beautiful, tall, completely flat ceilings...
I'm just here to build bridges

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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by danyalukin » April 23rd, 2012, 3:11 am

Would it be possible for a competitior to contact NSO at Florida that does event room selection and ask them to consider a change? There is one other event that is running in that gym - Gravity Vehicle, and it is likely that both Helicopters and Gravity could be moved to the other gym, thereby leaving the number of used rooms the same.
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by chalker7 » April 23rd, 2012, 6:01 am

danyalukin wrote:Would it be possible for a competitior to contact NSO at Florida that does event room selection and ask them to consider a change? There is one other event that is running in that gym - Gravity Vehicle, and it is likely that both Helicopters and Gravity could be moved to the other gym, thereby leaving the number of used rooms the same.
No, please do not attempt to do that. For all of the reasons I listed above and others, the rooms were selected as-is.
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by Phenylethylamine » April 23rd, 2012, 8:20 am

chalker7 wrote:
danyalukin wrote:Would it be possible for a competitior to contact NSO at Florida that does event room selection and ask them to consider a change? There is one other event that is running in that gym - Gravity Vehicle, and it is likely that both Helicopters and Gravity could be moved to the other gym, thereby leaving the number of used rooms the same.
No, please do not attempt to do that. For all of the reasons I listed above and others, the rooms were selected as-is.
I'm sorry, I am not an expert in this event, but your explanation seems to address reasons why the selected gym would be acceptable if it were the only option. It seems that there are other gyms which would be preferable, if they were available. Do you know the particular reason why this gym was chosen over the others?

It's certainly plausible that there's a very good reason that we are not aware of, but I don't think you've addressed this in your previous comments.

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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by chalker7 » April 23rd, 2012, 8:44 am

Phenylethylamine wrote:
chalker7 wrote:
danyalukin wrote:Would it be possible for a competitior to contact NSO at Florida that does event room selection and ask them to consider a change? There is one other event that is running in that gym - Gravity Vehicle, and it is likely that both Helicopters and Gravity could be moved to the other gym, thereby leaving the number of used rooms the same.
No, please do not attempt to do that. For all of the reasons I listed above and others, the rooms were selected as-is.
I'm sorry, I am not an expert in this event, but your explanation seems to address reasons why the selected gym would be acceptable if it were the only option. It seems that there are other gyms which would be preferable, if they were available. Do you know the particular reason why this gym was chosen over the others?

It's certainly plausible that there's a very good reason that we are not aware of, but I don't think you've addressed this in your previous comments.
I do not, but having not seen either of the sites I really can't comment on the superiority of one or the other. Not to call out lucwilder42, but we simply do not know if these other gyms really are better for the competition or not.
There are other major factors that could have influenced the decision that I didn't list above. These could include overall floor space (for spectators and competitors,) previous booking/appointments in the gym (I have no idea if there might be something else scheduled in the other rooms that day,) or a million other potential logistical issues (for example, and I'm totally making this up, they could have scheduled maintenance going on in the other locations.) The point is, while the gym doesn't look ideal from the one picture, it could turn out better than expected and we'll have to make do with whatever we have. I'll definitely be working with the local people to make the site as good as possible, but as I said earlier, consistency and fairness will take precedence.
National event supervisor - Wright Stuff, Helicopters
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