Ceiling at Nationals

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VeritasEnVida
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by VeritasEnVida » April 30th, 2012, 8:07 pm

I'm curious to know how many of your chinooks seem to "walk" across the ceiling.

Also it's a bit far fetched but what if we had a device that forced the helicopters to hit the large block underneath the large TV
http://www.scienceolympiad2012.com/wp-c ... enue-2.jpg
the blackbox with the coke and other advertisements?

Something as simple as a rubber lining around the outside edge would prevent the helicopters from going up into the "dangerous" obstructions in the ceiling. I can't really tell but it seems like the black box already has a outer rim that is slightly lower than the inside square.

I haven't tried aiming a helicopter before but the box is fairly large and this way you don't have to worry about broken helicopters...etc
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by jander14indoor » April 30th, 2012, 10:41 pm

We left the tether out of the rules because we intended altitude management to be a part of the challenge. Tethering reduces the complexity of the problem because you don't have to manage torque.

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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by chalker7 » May 1st, 2012, 6:06 am

jander14indoor wrote:We left the tether out of the rules because we intended altitude management to be a part of the challenge. Tethering reduces the complexity of the problem because you don't have to manage torque.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI
What Jeff and my brother say above are correct.

Another thing to note is that North Carolina has been allowing tethering at their state tournament for the past couple of years (in a gym with a similarly messy ceiling) and almost no one actually does it. From what I can tell, this is because the physical tether weighs way too much to be helpful. Even if you got insanely light thread/monofilament, 30-40 feet of it plus the attachment will most likely weigh well over 1 gram. If the tether is a removable attachement, it wouldn't count towards the mass of the helicopter (because if it did count, then the flight would never actually start, since the tether is always on the ground.) That extra 1+ gram is pretty devastating to flight times, considering the all-up mass of the helicopter is only something like 5 grams (depending on your motor size.) Adding an extra 20% to that payload simply prevents teams from being able to fly very well.

We're neither going to announce nor reject anything here (besides saying the printed rules themselves aren't going to change) as it is an unofficial venue, however consider everyone's complaint lodged. We are aware you do not like the ceiling... I'm thinking through a couple of different strategies for dealing with it (which might include doing nothing at all,) but we'll have to wait until we physically arrive in Orlando to inspect the site and talk with the local facilities managers about options.
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by GoEnloe » May 1st, 2012, 3:40 pm

In North Carolina, I've seen no one using tethers what-so-ever even though I believe we can (doesn't count to meeting the 3.5 gram requirement though). However, at the state competition, they did switch the location from a really tall gym (NC State's coliseum) to a small, flat 3.8 meter ceiling (much to our surprise and dismay since we built for the large gym)... so obstructions weren't really of concern.

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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by rockhound » May 1st, 2012, 7:21 pm

jander14indoor wrote:We left the tether out of the rules because we intended altitude management to be a part of the challenge. Tethering reduces the complexity of the problem because you don't have to manage torque.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI
I would have guessed the tether option was also left out of the rules because of 4a: "Rooms with minimal ceiling obstructions are preferred over very high ceilings." :(

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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by jander14indoor » May 2nd, 2012, 1:06 pm

More the other way around.
We were not going to allow tethers.
Seperately, we recognized helicopters have more problems with girdered celings than Wright Stuff so we suggested (not required) smooth ceilings.
And whenever I've had a choice I've taken a shorter smooth ceiling over a taller girdered one. But when I had no choice of the room, the students just had to deal with it.

Advice, plan on the nationals having the ceiling shown. If something causes the ceiling to be 'fixed' you aren't hurt. But if, as is more likely, the ceiling stays as shown, you are prepared.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by Luo » May 21st, 2012, 6:16 pm

Mounds View's helicopter got stuck in the rafters, which was pretty frustrating for our helicopter people who had put so much effort into their Chinook, but we realize it was out of our control and is just one of the unlucky things that can happen to any team at any Science Olympiad competition.
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by Phenylethylamine » May 21st, 2012, 6:27 pm

Luo wrote:Mounds View's helicopter got stuck in the rafters, which was pretty frustrating for our helicopter people who had put so much effort into their Chinook, but we realize it was out of our control and is just one of the unlucky things that can happen to any team at any Science Olympiad competition.
So did Ward Melville's. More frustratingly, it wasn't clear exactly at what time it got stuck, so our time was stopped when it went out of sight on the ceiling (after having been launched in the hallway on the side and then having moved along the ceiling into the larger room)... They then got it down with a balloon (?) and were told to take their second launch, but given that the helicopter was in multiple pieces at that point, it wasn't quite feasible :-P so if anyone was watching the awards ceremony and wondering why our Heli competitors looked less than thrilled with sixth place, that was it.

Oh well. It's a high-variance event. It's just too bad; I wanted to see them get that first-place medal (or second, rather, since Troy pulled off that crazy lucky – and skilled, don't get me wrong – three-plus-minute flight).
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by chia » May 21st, 2012, 7:16 pm

Luo wrote:Mounds View's helicopter got stuck in the rafters, which was pretty frustrating for our helicopter people who had put so much effort into their Chinook, but we realize it was out of our control and is just one of the unlucky things that can happen to any team at any Science Olympiad competition.
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I really wish there were some way I could have watched some of those flights... Helicopter has been my favorite flight event and I'm sad to see it go :( I would have loved to see Troy's and other flights which placed.
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Re: Ceiling at Nationals

Post by lucwilder42 » May 21st, 2012, 7:27 pm

chia wrote:
Luo wrote:Mounds View's helicopter got stuck in the rafters, which was pretty frustrating for our helicopter people who had put so much effort into their Chinook, but we realize it was out of our control and is just one of the unlucky things that can happen to any team at any Science Olympiad competition.
Story of my life :T
I really wish there were some way I could have watched some of those flights... Helicopter has been my favorite flight event and I'm sad to see it go :( I would have loved to see Troy's and other flights which placed.
Chalker7 took pictures of everyone with their copters, so hopefully he'll post them.
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