States sending two teams

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Re: States sending two teams

Postby Luo » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:25 pm

rfscoach wrote:
Luo wrote:I wonder how they break ties. The two methods I think seem most fair would be to either use last year's registration numbers as a tiebreaker or else use the state's most recent placing at nationals as a tiebreaker. Either of these tiebreakers would have resulted in Indiana getting the second Division B spot over Colorado.

Everywhere else on the list, they ranked tied states in alphabetical order. However, the only place it actually mattered (the Indiana/Colorado Division B tie) was the only place that the alphabetically latter state was listed ahead of the alphabetically former state.

Although it's probably an extremely remote possibility, it makes me wonder how they would break the tie at 66 if two states dropped out in Division C. If they broke the tie based on last year's registration numbers, Minnesota would get the spot. If they broke the tie based on last year's national placings, New Jersey would get the spot. If they broke the tie based on the current ordering, which appears to be simply alphabetical, Kansas would get the spot.

Or is there another possible tiebreaker they could be using that I'm missing? It just seems weird that they ordered tied states alphabetically in all cases except in the one place it actually mattered.


They could be broken by the date the registration numbers were sent to the national office...

Yeah, I thought of that, but it seems so grossly unfair I didn't think it was a viable possibility. On second consideration I suppose it's reasonable.

So are you saying it's possible that they break ties by alphabetization when it doesn't matter for nationals qualification, but break ties by the date the registration numbers were sent to the national office when it does matter for nationals qualification?
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby AlphaTauri » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:30 pm

Luo wrote:I wonder how they break ties. The two methods I think seem most fair would be to either use last year's registration numbers as a tiebreaker or else use the state's most recent placing at nationals as a tiebreaker. Either of these tiebreakers would have resulted in Indiana getting the second Division B spot over Colorado.

Everywhere else on the list, they ranked tied states in alphabetical order. However, the only place it actually mattered (the Indiana/Colorado Division B tie) was the only place that the alphabetically latter state was listed ahead of the alphabetically former state.

Although it's probably an extremely remote possibility, it makes me wonder how they would break the tie at 66 if two states dropped out in Division C. If they broke the tie based on last year's registration numbers, Minnesota would get the spot. If they broke the tie based on last year's national placings, New Jersey would get the spot. If they broke the tie based on the current ordering, which appears to be simply alphabetical, Kansas would get the spot.

Or is there another possible tiebreaker they could be using that I'm missing? It just seems weird that they ordered tied states alphabetically in all cases except in the one place it actually mattered.

I would guess the alphabetical ordering is to avoid anyone reading too far into what state would be ahead if there was a scuffle over getting a second team - i.e. NSO only breaks ties when they need to. I don't think alphabetical order would (or should) be a tiebreaker, since that's just arbitrary. I don't think last year's national placings would be a tiebreaker either - too volatile, especially in Div B, and it seems too dependent on team ability instead of interest. Last year's registration numbers seems to be the most reasonable tiebreaker (since number of teams determines the rankings anyways), although perhaps it might be growth in teams instead of just straight numbers?
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby JKrafsur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:53 pm

So you people are telling me we tied Indiana?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

:evil:
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby JKrafsur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:55 pm

AlphaTauri wrote: I would guess the alphabetical ordering is to avoid anyone reading too far into what state would be ahead if there was a scuffle over getting a second team - i.e. NSO only breaks ties when they need to. I don't think alphabetical order would (or should) be a tiebreaker, since that's just arbitrary. I don't think last year's national placings would be a tiebreaker either - too volatile, especially in Div B, and it seems too dependent on team ability instead of interest. Last year's registration numbers seems to be the most reasonable tiebreaker (since number of teams determines the rankings anyways), although perhaps it might be growth in teams instead of just straight numbers?


Also, an FYI, our state grew more than Indiana, they gained 1 team, we gained around 6
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby JKrafsur » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:59 am

stycman wrote:thank you for good post)


Like, really or sarcastically? I didnt think either of them was a good post
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby Luo » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:28 am

JKrafsur wrote:
stycman wrote:thank you for good post)


Like, really or sarcastically? I didnt think either of them was a good post

Sounds to me like a moderately sophisticated spam bot similar to viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3016&p=198622&#p198622 (note the advertising link in the signature)
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby JKrafsur » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:44 pm

Luo wrote:(note the advertising link in the signature)


Ha, thats funny, didnt even notice
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby bentley8 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:31 am

Indiana got two spots.
Both schools from my city are going! :)
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby hscmom » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:39 pm

JKrafsur wrote:So you people are telling me we tied Indiana?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

:evil:


This exactly... EXACTLY -- seven points off... waah
Last edited by hscmom on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby JKrafsur » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:45 pm

hscmom wrote:
JKrafsur wrote:So you people are telling me we tied Indiana?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

:evil:


This exactly...


I dont know, it probably doesnt affect you homeschool guys as much because youve proven you can almost beat Preston, and we never have come even close.
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby hscmom » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:02 pm

JKrafsur wrote:
hscmom wrote:
JKrafsur wrote:So you people are telling me we tied Indiana?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

:evil:


This exactly...


I dont know, it probably doesnt affect you homeschool guys as much because youve proven you can almost beat Preston, and we never have come even close.


But we HAVEN'T beaten Preston. It's going to hurt to come in second (if that's what we do) when we know that the 2nd place team in Indiana gets to go.

I guess it just makes us work harder. Oh, my, it's 8 AM on a spring break morning -- why am I not highlighting passages in that new (used) microbe book????
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby JKrafsur » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:56 pm

hscmom wrote: But we HAVEN'T beaten Preston. It's going to hurt to come in second (if that's what we do) when we know that the 2nd place team in Indiana gets to go.
I guess it just makes us work harder. Oh, my, it's 8 AM on a spring break morning -- why am I not highlighting passages in that new (used) microbe book????


True, very true, but I am still hoping that we get two spots since we are the first in line to get 2, and hey, you never know the future I guess. (The funny thing is this is coming from a guy who is a pessimist)
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby hscmom » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:39 am

[quote="JKrafsurTrue, very true, but I am still hoping that we get two spots since we are the first in line to get 2, and hey, you never know the future I guess. (The funny thing is this is coming from a guy who is a pessimist)[/quote]

Sort of makes you want to gather some kids off the street and register another dozen or so teams just to bump the numbers up. You know the East Middle School Mime Club SO Team, the St. Andrew's Middle School Saxophone Section SO Team, the Laura Ingalls Wilder Fan Club SO Team, etc.

We're also hoping two teams...
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby Fester » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:45 am

Sort of makes you want to gather some kids off the street and register another dozen or so teams just to bump the numbers up. You know the East Middle School Mime Club SO Team, the St. Andrew's Middle School Saxophone Section SO Team, the Laura Ingalls Wilder Fan Club SO Team, etc.

We're also hoping two teams...


Hilarious post! Idea could work, given enough money, except they try to keep numbers secret (but anyone looking over competitions can easily figure it out) I'm waiting for the "Uncle Fester Memorial High School"

Well, maybe not "Memorial".

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Re: States sending two teams

Postby Xelnyn » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:23 pm

Well, Florida is sending two teams. Or rather hosting two teams since it is in Florida(If that makes any sense?)


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