States sending two teams

Luo
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby Luo » March 13th, 2012, 3:53 am

I'm curious, when Soinc counts teams, do they go by basis of teams registered in a state, or by the number of teams that compete in Regionals? The reason I'm asking this is that in Minnesota last year, the middle school team in my district registered, but didn't actually compete in Regionals (despite the fact that their name is on the tournament shirt :lol:). That would have increased the number of teams in Div B MN by 1, and while that didn't do anything for us, seeing how close these numbers are on registered teams per state, I'm wondering whether this could be slightly unfair.
I agree that's an issue. But a greater issue I see is how the number of teams are greatly inflated in MN as B & C only have 11 & 12 events at Regionals, allowing for many schools of the 46 to have multiple teams counting towards the overall 66 for C. I'm not blaming MN but isn't this something that can be better regulated nationally? It can at least perhaps be taken into account when rewarding states with 2nd teams. For comparison, I'm in a state where C has 50 schools and 63 teams this year but that could have easily been 70+ if Regionals had only half the # of events.
That's an interesting perspective, but I'm not sure how much difference having fewer regional events actually makes in influencing how many teams each school registers. For example, Mounds View (4 teams), Eastview (3 teams), and Wayzata (3 teams) all sent the same number of teams to invitationals (where all 23 events were run) as to regionals (where only 12 events were run). So for these three schools at least, the number of events at regionals did not influence the number of teams they registered.
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby r00ki316 » March 13th, 2012, 4:32 am

That is interesting. So Luo, do you have 15 student teams spread through 12 events at Regionals or fewer students/team at Invites?
There's also a great % differential of teams advancing to State and my state allows multiple teams/school at State. So some MN schools may send more teams to allow more students to participate since many won't get the chance to compete at State.

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Re: States sending two teams

Postby Kokonilly » March 13th, 2012, 9:44 am

That is interesting. So Luo, do you have 15 student teams spread through 12 events at Regionals or fewer students/team at Invites?
(Note: I go to Eastview.) I'm not certain about Luo's team - though I think it's the same way - but we have full 15-person teams at regions; the only exception to that would be if we don't have enough people to field a full third team or if someone on the projected state team does not have any events at regions (which happened last year). The same goes for invites.

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Re: States sending two teams

Postby haverstall » March 13th, 2012, 11:00 am

There's also a great % differential of teams advancing to State and my state allows multiple teams/school at State. So some MN schools may send more teams to allow more students to participate since many won't get the chance to compete at State.
I am of the opinion that every student should compete in regionals whether on a one person team or a 15 person team. This year, (I'm from Mounds View) we had enough people to make up 5 teams, but unfortunately, as Luo stated, we only had 4.

Just curious, what percent of teams does your state send to the state competition? In MN Div C, 50% of the total number of teams goes. I think that not having multiple teams/schools resulting in more teams in general is an interesting perspective, although I think most schools would under-register rather than over-register.
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby r00ki316 » March 13th, 2012, 11:47 am

Just curious, what percent of teams does your state send to the state competition? In MN Div C, 50% of the total number of teams goes. I think that not having multiple teams/schools resulting in more teams in general is an interesting perspective, although I think most schools would under-register rather than over-register.
I don't understand what you mean by "not having multiple teams/schools resulting in more teams in general...". How does not having multiple teams/school result in more teams? And a school is less likely, which the numbers support, to register more than 1 team if they are guaranteed to go to State (see below) than if they are not.

Well, they changed the way things work this year and we recently found out. So top 50 teams that "participate" in Reginals, with some qualifications on how much they participate, compete at State. This year, they added additional details with the two main details being that only 1 team/school can qualify to compete & win awards at State but any non-qualifying teams (additional teams beyond one/school and any that didn't participate enough) can participate at State but they don't win awards nor do their rankings count. So the list of total schools at State actually has 64 while the team numbers only list 63 (not cross-checking the two lists). Basically, everyone can go to State if they want but only some (~2/3) are teams in the official competition.

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Re: States sending two teams

Postby Luo » March 13th, 2012, 12:20 pm

That is interesting. So Luo, do you have 15 student teams spread through 12 events at Regionals or fewer students/team at Invites?
There's also a great % differential of teams advancing to State and my state allows multiple teams/school at State. So some MN schools may send more teams to allow more students to participate since many won't get the chance to compete at State.
As you probably gleaned from haverstall's post, we send four full 15-person teams to regionals to compete in the 12 events. Thus, regionals is a sort of "easy" competition in which each student does only 1-2 events. It is my understanding that teams with enough people to fill 15-person teams tend to do so at regionals, opting to have their students participate in fewer events each.
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby haverstall » March 13th, 2012, 1:48 pm

Just curious, what percent of teams does your state send to the state competition? In MN Div C, 50% of the total number of teams goes. I think that not having multiple teams/schools resulting in more teams in general is an interesting perspective, although I think most schools would under-register rather than over-register.
I don't understand what you mean by "not having multiple teams/schools resulting in more teams in general...". How does not having multiple teams/school result in more teams? And a school is less likely, which the numbers support, to register more than 1 team if they are guaranteed to go to State (see below) than if they are not.
Sorry, I meant multiple teams/schools advancing to the state tournament.
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby cnapun » March 13th, 2012, 5:44 pm

Does anyone know if there is any chance of NJ sending two teams?

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Re: States sending two teams

Postby tornado guy » March 13th, 2012, 6:57 pm

Does anyone know if there is any chance of NJ sending two teams?
Doubt it. WA has more teams then NJ and it looks really doubtful that we are going to send two teams. And you are talking B division I am assuming?
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Re: States sending two teams

Postby zyzzyva980 » March 13th, 2012, 7:37 pm

We do have a Number of Teams per State Wiki. It's not as helpful as the lists posted earlier because 1) It's combined B and C and 2) We only have 2011 and 2010 data. (Example: I don't think Arkansas will have over 100 teams this year).

Of course, if someone did happen to find data that splits divisions or is from earlier years...
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