Questions about alternate teams

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Questions about alternate teams

Postby hscmom » April 23rd, 2012, 2:45 pm

Hi All,

We're still quite new to this but my husband wants to book us a family vacation since we're not going to Nationals. We are trying to decide if it is worth the risk of booking a vacation for that same time in May ... in otherwords, what are our chances of going as an alternate to nationals? Should we be flexible or just assume that we have no chance of going and might as well schedule something else fun (it's truly one of our only open times to travel between now and Christmas!!).

Here's the scoop, our team finished 2nd in Colorado B Division, seven points off first. Ouch. Our state, with 66 teams, is the largest state to send just one B team. In fact, we're still scratching our heads on that one...

So, what are our chances of getting a last minute chance to go? I know that if the first place Colorado team drops, we will get an invitation but I know that they won't do that. They've been several times and there is no reason that they wouldn't go...

If another state's qualifying team decides not to go, does that state send the next team in line? So, if the Idaho first place team decides not to go, does the second place Idaho team go? Or does that slot go to us because we're the biggest one-team-only state? And if a state has two slots and one of the two decide not to go, does that slot go to us or that state's third place team, so that the state still has two slots or do we get to move up?

How does that work?

And how often does a team back out?

I figured it rarely happens but a coach of an older team came up to us after awards and said that one year they were in the same position (Colorado sending one team and this coach's team was second place and Colorado was very close to sending two) and another team from another state backed out and they got to go in this other team's place. They had two weeks' notice! Maybe I misunderstood it -- but evidently it has happened. But, is that the only time in SO history that it has happened, or does it happen now and then.

So, do we book non-refundable airfare for a family trip then or do we decide to be flexible and do a closer-to-home road trip instead?

How rare is it for a B team with an invitation to Nationals to turn it down for whatever reason? Seems like if someone fought tooth and nail for that slot (like we fought tooth and nail to get second... sigh) then they'd hang on to that slot and find a way to get there!

What percent chance do you think we have of going?

And thanks in advance for sharing your experience....
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby AlphaTauri » April 23rd, 2012, 2:56 pm

Generally, I think if a TEAM drops out, then the next-place team from their state gets an invitation. If a STATE drops out, then the next state in line for a second team gets an invitation.

I don't know about Div B, but it's not that rare for a state to drop out in Div C - the teams from Oklahoma and DC (both of which only have a couple teams) nearly always drop out.
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby hscmom » April 23rd, 2012, 3:33 pm

Generally, I think if a TEAM drops out, then the next-place team from their state gets an invitation. If a STATE drops out, then the next state in line for a second team gets an invitation.

I don't know about Div B, but it's not that rare for a state to drop out in Div C - the teams from Oklahoma and DC (both of which only have a couple teams) nearly always drop out.
First off, Alpha, thanks for the quick reply...

Okay, here's the newbie asking another question...

What is the difference between the state dropping out and the team dropping out? I understand that if a state is sending two teams, say Alabama, and one of them can't go, then the TEAM is dropping out, so the state would send the third place team (because either the first or more likely the second dropped out).

But what does it mean if the only team from a state decides not to go. Most states are sending just one team and if the team drops, does that mean the state drops? Or does the state start asking down the list to try to find some other team? Or does the state say, "Well, if Smarty Middle School can't go, we'll just officially relinquish or slot?" Is it up to the individual state to decide whether or not to keep asking or to tell Nationals to ask the next state in line if they want to send a second B team?

Is that it?

And, then the bottom line is, what are our chances of THAT happening?

Again, many thanks -- I just really lack the experience and don't want to jump to conclusions. Having never been to nats, and still new to SO, I am just useless in guessing what the chances are...
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby JKrafsur » April 23rd, 2012, 3:49 pm

Hate to barge in here, but here is my opinion. Preston is NOT going to drop out, my friend, who is on the team, said they started raising money months ago (I know, a little crazy right) In regards to another state dropping their spot, this is a little more likely, still not very however. Oregon, Oklahoma, and Arkansas are the 3 states most people could even see dropping their spots. Franklin in Oregon has been rumored to not drop out if they win according to people on these forums, Casady from Oklahoma has posted on their website that they are going, and LISA in Oklahoma has had more than a week, so we would know by now.

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No state/Colorado is likely to drop their spot at nationals. If you truly want to be certain, wait another week before any state that would even come close to being considered to drop their spot hits their deadline, and if nobody does, book that vacation.
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby hscmom » April 23rd, 2012, 8:27 pm

Hi JKrafsur, welcome to the conversation -- you're not barging in, you are contributing. I actually think it is a fine idea to raise money proactively. I'd rather do it before State than before Nationals (when everyone is so busy).

I know Preston won't drop (see my third paragraph in original post where I said "that won't happen.") Connect's coach told our coach that they got an invitation to go to Nat's as a second Colorado team when a team in another state dropped out. They got that invitation two weeks before nationals and they went. And it made me wonder if it could happen or if the one time it happened to Connect is the only time it ever happened.

I thought I would post here and see if people chimed in with "I hear rumors that..." or "It happens about every other year" or "My team got to go when that happened..." blah blah blah.

I don't imagine it happening but would feel pretty foolish if we booked a little getaway and then got invited...
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby chalker7 » April 25th, 2012, 9:31 pm

Hi All,

We're still quite new to this but my husband wants to book us a family vacation since we're not going to Nationals. We are trying to decide if it is worth the risk of booking a vacation for that same time in May ... in otherwords, what are our chances of going as an alternate to nationals? Should we be flexible or just assume that we have no chance of going and might as well schedule something else fun (it's truly one of our only open times to travel between now and Christmas!!).

Here's the scoop, our team finished 2nd in Colorado B Division, seven points off first. Ouch. Our state, with 66 teams, is the largest state to send just one B team. In fact, we're still scratching our heads on that one...

So, what are our chances of getting a last minute chance to go? I know that if the first place Colorado team drops, we will get an invitation but I know that they won't do that. They've been several times and there is no reason that they wouldn't go...

If another state's qualifying team decides not to go, does that state send the next team in line? So, if the Idaho first place team decides not to go, does the second place Idaho team go? Or does that slot go to us because we're the biggest one-team-only state? And if a state has two slots and one of the two decide not to go, does that slot go to us or that state's third place team, so that the state still has two slots or do we get to move up?

How does that work?

And how often does a team back out?

I figured it rarely happens but a coach of an older team came up to us after awards and said that one year they were in the same position (Colorado sending one team and this coach's team was second place and Colorado was very close to sending two) and another team from another state backed out and they got to go in this other team's place. They had two weeks' notice! Maybe I misunderstood it -- but evidently it has happened. But, is that the only time in SO history that it has happened, or does it happen now and then.

So, do we book non-refundable airfare for a family trip then or do we decide to be flexible and do a closer-to-home road trip instead?

How rare is it for a B team with an invitation to Nationals to turn it down for whatever reason? Seems like if someone fought tooth and nail for that slot (like we fought tooth and nail to get second... sigh) then they'd hang on to that slot and find a way to get there!

What percent chance do you think we have of going?

And thanks in advance for sharing your experience....
In my years of being involved with SO, I have not heard of a team qualifying for nationals through a state tournament and then backing out between the state tournament and nationals (the situation you are describing.) That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just that it was not well publicized or is extremely rare.

Entire states do occasionally drop out (as described above.) But, normally that is earlier in the year, prior to their full state tournaments. Usually, the reason they drop out is due to low registration numbers and the inability to run a true state tournament.
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby hscmom » April 26th, 2012, 7:02 am

Thanks, Chalker7, that helps clarify it. Late May family trip WEST it is for us. :( But, the team is already planning an outing to Young's Dairy and King's Island. :D Optimism reigns...

I guess it happened once in our state since the coach it happened to told our coach, "Happened to us; could happen to you."

Not counting on it.

Now, you weren't part of the committee or group that drew the line between Colorado and Indiana were you?
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby chalker7 » April 26th, 2012, 11:17 am

Now, you weren't part of the committee or group that drew the line between Colorado and Indiana were you?
No
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby hscmom » April 26th, 2012, 2:22 pm

Okay, I didn't think so. Thanks...
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Re: Questions about alternate teams

Postby EpicFailOlympian » April 26th, 2012, 6:42 pm

There is virtually no chance for a team who qualifies for nationals to drop out. I do feel you, as the 3rd and alternate placing team for Missouri. You're really wishing for the moon on that one.
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