Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby adrenalynn » January 27th, 2012, 3:56 pm

I think in some cases, the event coordinator will have to just rely upon the student's assurances. I'm planning to NOT have a gas chromatograph there. There's really no way I can know for certain that something really IS entirely 100% organic without it.

If I were the coach or student, I think I'd keep the box or datasheet on any bits and bring it along to assure the EC (such as the earlier cotton-ball discussion)

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby Primate » January 28th, 2012, 7:02 am

I know this isn't the place for official clarifications, but I'm pretty sure I'm just interpreting these ambiguously. Rule 3.d:
The device must also easily accommodate the insertion and removal of a thermometer/probe into the beaker via a hole at least 1.5cm in diameter directly above the beaker. The top surface of the hole must be less than 5cm above the top lip of the beaker.
Our device has both a lid and a beaker cover, both with a 1.5cm hole directly above the beaker. Ideally, we'd place the beaker dead center in our box, and just open the lid to allow a thermometer/probe to be inserted. But I assume this rule is intended to require that the top surface of the topmost hole must be within 5cm of the beaker? And therefore the top of the beaker must be less than 5cm below the top of our device, period.

(Source of confusion: it doesn't say "the device must easily accommodate the insertion of a thermometer via a hole that is immediately accessible from the exterior of the device.")
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby smartkid222 » January 28th, 2012, 12:14 pm

Yes, this line is somewhat ambiguous. How do you read "directly above the beaker"?
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby SmalSci » January 28th, 2012, 12:17 pm

At the compitition do you have to bring your own beekers? And is the water heated in the beekers or is it poured into them?

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby Schrodingerscat » January 28th, 2012, 12:28 pm

At the compitition do you have to bring your own beekers? And is the water heated in the beekers or is it poured into them?
Read your rules. If the rules for B division are written like C, both of your answers should be clearly found in the rules. For C (but cannot say for certainly with B) you are required to bring the beakers, and the water is heated in a different container and poured into your beakers.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby Primate » January 28th, 2012, 4:11 pm

At the compitition do you have to bring your own beekers? And is the water heated in the beekers or is it poured into them?
Good luck finding a beeker. I only know of one;)
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby chalker » January 28th, 2012, 9:00 pm

But I assume this rule is intended to require that the top surface of the topmost hole must be within 5cm of the beaker? And therefore the top of the beaker must be less than 5cm below the top of our device, period.

(Source of confusion: it doesn't say "the device must easily accommodate the insertion of a thermometer via a hole that is immediately accessible from the exterior of the device.")
You've essentially answered your own question here. It should be obvious the spirit of that rule is to facilitate the event supervisor reading the temperature, without having to mess around much with the device. The rules don't differentiate between a 'lid' and a 'cover' like you have, nor even mention such words. It simply talks about inserting and removing the probe via the specified hole.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby Primate » January 29th, 2012, 6:17 am

But I assume this rule is intended to require that the top surface of the topmost hole must be within 5cm of the beaker? And therefore the top of the beaker must be less than 5cm below the top of our device, period.

(Source of confusion: it doesn't say "the device must easily accommodate the insertion of a thermometer via a hole that is immediately accessible from the exterior of the device.")
You've essentially answered your own question here. It should be obvious the spirit of that rule is to facilitate the event supervisor reading the temperature, without having to mess around much with the device. The rules don't differentiate between a 'lid' and a 'cover' like you have, nor even mention such words. It simply talks about inserting and removing the probe via the specified hole.
Oh sure, but as an event supervisor I wouldn't have thought twice about swinging open the hinged lid, then inserting the thermometer through the appropriately-spaced hole in the beaker cover. On the initial read-through, at least. It's only on second thought that you realize such a design violates the spirit of the rule. I think the wording could be a bit more clear, that's all.
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby NinjaChicken » January 29th, 2012, 1:37 pm

My device has 3 'layers' to close on top of the beaker to close the device (don't worry, they all have a 1.5 cm hole).

At the 2 invitationals I've been to, the ES hands each team 2 containers of the heated water, and the student pours the water into their device and external beaker. Is this how it's being done at other invitationals, also?

And if so, could I start my device closed, and use a funnel to pour the water in? The main question is if using a funnel would even be legal.

And if I could do that, would pouring it into the funnel be worse than the time I save by closing my device?
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby chalker7 » January 29th, 2012, 2:17 pm

My device has 3 'layers' to close on top of the beaker to close the device (don't worry, they all have a 1.5 cm hole).

At the 2 invitationals I've been to, the ES hands each team 2 containers of the heated water, and the student pours the water into their device and external beaker. Is this how it's being done at other invitationals, also?

And if so, could I start my device closed, and use a funnel to pour the water in? The main question is if using a funnel would even be legal.

And if I could do that, would pouring it into the funnel be worse than the time I save by closing my device?
You probably saw this coming, but I would submit an official clarification for that question.
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