Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby foreverphysics » February 1st, 2012, 1:06 pm

All right, to be more specific, how much of the thermodynamics material do we need to know? Like, do we need to know an entire college course's worth of thermodynamics (like in Optics), or is just basics of thermodynamics? Do we need to know the zeroth law of thermodynamics and stuff like that? Do we need to know pressure and effects it has on fluid s because it corresponds to thermodynamics in the way of heat? Should we know how to calculate all the different kinds of pressures and things like that? What about the kinetic theory? Microscopic descriptions for ideal gases? The four gas laws? Entropy? What else, other than that, do we need to know?
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby foreverphysics » February 1st, 2012, 1:11 pm

EDIT: I didn't realize it already shown up...sorry.
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby chalker » February 1st, 2012, 1:27 pm

All right, to be more specific, how much of the thermodynamics material do we need to know? Like, do we need to know an entire college course's worth of thermodynamics (like in Optics), or is just basics of thermodynamics? Do we need to know the zeroth law of thermodynamics and stuff like that? Do we need to know pressure and effects it has on fluid s because it corresponds to thermodynamics in the way of heat? Should we know how to calculate all the different kinds of pressures and things like that? What about the kinetic theory? Microscopic descriptions for ideal gases? The four gas laws? Entropy? What else, other than that, do we need to know?

Yes;) The topics list is pretty much all of thermodynamics.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby smartkid222 » February 1st, 2012, 3:51 pm

Yes you need to know all that. However, most college classes in thermodynamics are very heavily calculus based, while in science olympiad there is an "unwritten rule" or precident to (almost always) not include calculus. So if you are you are doing problems with calculus, you are probably above the level you need to be. The concepts behind those problems however, are important.
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby Frogger4907 » February 3rd, 2012, 9:59 am

The main problem with elaborate measures to reduce temperature loss by the event supervisor is that the students also would have to use this for every test to be able to match the higher temperatures attained by the supervisors. For example heating a huge bath of water may be practical for a event supervisor at the competition, consider that the students might need to take these same procedures every time they test their device to get the higher starting temperatures.
still its unrecognized as a problem...
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby bearasauras » February 3rd, 2012, 10:10 am

Frogger, can you please explain? I think I'm missing your point due to some sort of disconnect. For me, I think of the calibration and practicing part from the students to be as follows: measure the starting temperature of the liquid as soon as the liquid is poured into the beaker. As long as you know how the temperature of your device changes based on the starting temperature, you have done your part for calibration.

Now, making sure the temperature of the water you get when the water is in your beaker matches the temperature the event supervisor tells you is the job of the event supervisor. By doing what I was explaining earlier, there should be a negligible amount of difference between the temperature the event supervisor tells you and the actual temperature you get in the beaker.

I'm not trying to justify this events. I'm only trying to suggest a way that event supervisors can run this event so that it's fair to all the teams in that it's consistent from team to team and also as consistent from what you practice to the actual testing. Clearly, having the event supervisor being present while you're practicing isn't practical, I'm only offering suggestions.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby Not Ur Average Bear » February 3rd, 2012, 12:05 pm

To clarify on the aluminum foil tape, we are planning to use it to seal cracks and insulate the device. It says it is "HVAC" (heat, venting, airconditioning) but aluminum foil is an accepted material, so we're not really sure.

Also, are there any more updates on the magnetic tape question? We think it's a good idea, but it hasn't been officially approved yet.

Thanks for answering our questions!
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby Schrodingerscat » February 3rd, 2012, 5:51 pm

It would also complicated it that it sounds like the tape is specifically designed for insulation, so might fit under commercial insulation and therefore be prohibited.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby Primate » February 3rd, 2012, 9:33 pm

Anyone else notice that the standard Vernier temperature probes do a great job of stopping up the hole? (To get an accurate reading, you've got to stick the probe in nearly all the way, and the plastic housing ends up in hole.)

It provides a nice little boost to your heat retention score, but wreaks havoc with the prediction... ugh. One more variable to account for. Edit: I take that back. Let me finish up this experiment before I comment....
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Postby entropy1 » February 4th, 2012, 10:28 am

Can we use aluminum foil tape to partially to insulate our box, but also use as fastening material. This is not exactly tape, but more of an aluminum foil roll that has a sticky side.
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Take a close look at rule 3.a. - the fastening materials can't contribute to the insulating properties of the box.
Right, but aluminum foil is explicitly listed as an acceptable material. I think this is where the question arises from, correct?
Chalker,
Can you comment further on the allowance of Al foil tape to fasten edges? Seems this material is only a combination of allowed Al foil & tape. Thanks,


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