Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by Flavorflav » January 24th, 2012, 10:50 am

Thank you as always, gentlemen.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by NinjaChicken » January 24th, 2012, 3:10 pm

Also, why does each team need to supply their own beaker and each have separate external temps? Shouldn't the E.S. just have 1 beaker as a 'master' beaker, where the initial and final temperatures would apply to all teams? I think it would make measuring a lot easier by not having to record each individual temperature that should be the same.
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by Schrodingerscat » January 24th, 2012, 3:25 pm

NinjaChicken wrote:Also, why does each team need to supply their own beaker and each have separate external temps? Shouldn't the E.S. just have 1 beaker as a 'master' beaker, where the initial and final temperatures would apply to all teams? I think it would make measuring a lot easier by not having to record each individual temperature that should be the same.
It makes the score slightly more fair for when teams receive the water at different temperatures, such as if the water bath temperature is not maintained while teams water is poured.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by illusionist » January 24th, 2012, 3:51 pm

Schrodingerscat wrote:
NinjaChicken wrote:Also, why does each team need to supply their own beaker and each have separate external temps? Shouldn't the E.S. just have 1 beaker as a 'master' beaker, where the initial and final temperatures would apply to all teams? I think it would make measuring a lot easier by not having to record each individual temperature that should be the same.
It makes the score slightly more fair for when teams receive the water at different temperatures, such as if the water bath temperature is not maintained while teams water is poured.
Also, there may be temperature variations in different parts of the room (air currents or heating).
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by chalker7 » January 24th, 2012, 4:35 pm

NinjaChicken wrote:Also, why does each team need to supply their own beaker and each have separate external temps? Shouldn't the E.S. just have 1 beaker as a 'master' beaker, where the initial and final temperatures would apply to all teams? I think it would make measuring a lot easier by not having to record each individual temperature that should be the same.
Also, different brands of beakers are slightly different. We want to ensure the team has two identical water supplies.
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by NinjaChicken » January 24th, 2012, 6:01 pm

Haha alright, alright, I'll stop questioning the rules :P
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by JimY » January 27th, 2012, 5:55 am

A suggestion for event supervisors and future rule writing: Allow each team to bring their device to where the hot water is being poured. Then after the supervisor pours the water into the interior beaker, sit it on a pot holder or other good insulator and let the students immediately pick it up and place it in their device while the initial time is being recorded. Reason: we just attended an invite last weekend, where 50 ml of 80+ C water was used. By the time the beaker was brought to one of our devices, it was already at 50 C, which was the estimated final temp for the volume, hot temp, room temp, and time. My opinion is that Part 1 of the event should not be about figuring out how to compensate for how your device was calibrated versus how the event is being run at a competition. So, making this part more standardized would be good.

Then for the event supervisor who is ready to leave the country as well as other supervisors that are assigned to run it, I volunteered to run this event at that invite but we had a different event assigned to us. If we got it, my plan was to use a 6 quart kitchen pan to hold the hot water with a lab hot plate to keep the temp relatively steady. I'd also have some boiling water on hand to quickly bring it up to temp if it was too low as well as some tap water to do the opposite. As far as measuring devices, I didn't have that part fully developed, but my thought was to make a homemade ladle of some sort that is just dunked into the hot water tub, stirred around a bit, pulled right out 100% full, and then poured into the beaker. Then to run the event, I'd make sure the water was stirred with the ladle to make sure that both ladle and water were at the same temp before pouring into each beaker for each team. My thought was to have one person monitoring the hot water temp the entire time the water pouring process was going on, and adjusting with boiling water and tap water as needed to keep it as constant as possible. I would have practiced this a time or two before the actual tournament to see how easy or difficult it is to maintain water temp. A constant temp bath would eliminate the need for the second person. However, even if you have a constant temp bath available, I'd still practice the transfer part a bit, especially with respect to timing. You probably need one person to call out team names at even time intervals, plus another to watch over test-taking. So, three or four depending on the equipment you have.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by MechEng » January 27th, 2012, 9:26 am

Can hay or straw count as a natural fiber or a granular material?

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by chalker » January 27th, 2012, 11:28 am

JimY wrote:A suggestion for event supervisors and future rule writing: Allow each team to bring their device to where the hot water is being poured.
There's nothing in the rules that prevents this from happening right now. It's really up to the individual event supervisor. If you want to do this, I'd recommend asking the supervisor during impound if they would allow it.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by chalker » January 27th, 2012, 11:29 am

MechEng wrote:Can hay or straw count as a natural fiber or a granular material?

I think hay and straw definitely fit within the 'organic granular material' definition we've already posted here: http://soinc.org/node/855

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