Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

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Unbihexium
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby Unbihexium » March 18th, 2013, 4:32 pm

cyanophycean314 wrote:At Indiana, our State test made each team split into two parts, a lab portion consisting of five stations and a very long test. Because there were stations and the other person was in another room sometimes, it made consulting about things kinda weird.
I manned the test portion and it didn't cover too many advanced topics. It was definitely all within phys B level. They tried to squeeze you with the time limit, but I still finished with time to spare.

In the end, my partner messed up one of the labs, but that's ok because we got 1st! :D It was a very happy conclusion to my season.


Yeah its just disappointing when they don't do advanced topics that are in the rules... I'm used to NYS having rules and then some random stuff on top of it, but I've been disappointed this year with how simple the concepts on the tests were, I'd like to see a more challenging test in the future.
2012 Regionals: 5th Towers
2013 Athens Twin Tiers Invites: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 3rd Circuit Lab
2013 Regionals: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 1st Circuit Lab
2013 New York States: 3rd Fermi, 3rd Circuit Lab

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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby tangentline » March 18th, 2013, 5:35 pm

Unbihexium wrote:Also, who needs Kirchhoff's laws when you have node voltage analysis? :D


Cough. What laws are you using when you are using node voltage. Well, with some of the explanations I've been hearing on these forums as well, Kirchhoff would be the quick and easy answer that makes things make more sense.

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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby Unbihexium » March 18th, 2013, 5:43 pm

tangentline wrote:
Unbihexium wrote:Also, who needs Kirchhoff's laws when you have node voltage analysis? :D


Cough. What laws are you using when you are using node voltage. Well, with some of the explanations I've been hearing on these forums as well, Kirchhoff would be the quick and easy answer that makes things make more sense.


I know perfectly well that Nodal analysis is an application of Kirchhoff's laws, its simple a much more effective version... And sure, kirchhoff's are easy for some situation, but nodal is practically guaranteed to give you fewer equations...
2012 Regionals: 5th Towers
2013 Athens Twin Tiers Invites: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 3rd Circuit Lab
2013 Regionals: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 1st Circuit Lab
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby fourLoko » March 18th, 2013, 7:32 pm

I hate nodal analysis :P I think mesh or the superposition theorem are a lot simpler haha
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby Unbihexium » March 18th, 2013, 7:40 pm

fourLoko wrote:I hate nodal analysis :P I think mesh or the superposition theorem are a lot simpler haha


Really? mesh is just Kirchhoff's loop rule with a little simplification, and superposition is slower than node not to mention it only works for linear circuits... I'm confused of the advantages here.. I do like simplifying to thevenins/nortons though if i'm analyzing something that can be helped that way...
2012 Regionals: 5th Towers
2013 Athens Twin Tiers Invites: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 3rd Circuit Lab
2013 Regionals: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 1st Circuit Lab
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby fourLoko » March 18th, 2013, 7:41 pm

Unbihexium wrote:
fourLoko wrote:I hate nodal analysis :P I think mesh or the superposition theorem are a lot simpler haha


Really? mesh is just Kirchhoff's loop rule with a little simplification, and superposition is slower than node not to mention it only works for linear circuits... I'm confused of the advantages here.. I do like simplifying to thevenins/nortons though if i'm analyzing something that can be helped that way...

Superposition can totally work for non-linear circuits with multiple voltage sources...
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby Unbihexium » March 18th, 2013, 7:49 pm

fourLoko wrote:
Unbihexium wrote:
fourLoko wrote:I hate nodal analysis :P I think mesh or the superposition theorem are a lot simpler haha


Really? mesh is just Kirchhoff's loop rule with a little simplification, and superposition is slower than node not to mention it only works for linear circuits... I'm confused of the advantages here.. I do like simplifying to thevenins/nortons though if i'm analyzing something that can be helped that way...

Superposition can totally work for non-linear circuits with multiple voltage sources...


Linear circuits have nothing to do with number of voltage sources a linear circuit means all elements have linear VI curves as opposed to things like diodes...google is your friend you missunderstand the deffinition
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_circuit#section_1
2012 Regionals: 5th Towers
2013 Athens Twin Tiers Invites: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 3rd Circuit Lab
2013 Regionals: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 1st Circuit Lab
2013 New York States: 3rd Fermi, 3rd Circuit Lab

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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby tangentline » March 18th, 2013, 7:55 pm

I think labeling our techniques is more confusing than just stating a problem and the steps taken to solve it.
Superposition, Node/Mesh Analysis, Thevenin/Norton, Kirchhoff, etc are all techniques that I just use intermixed to solve a problem the fastest way I see possible. If I see a viable shortcut to the "usual" method, I'll take it. There have been problems for example that "superposition" (I'm labeling) provides a quick and easy fix to multiple batteries---it depends on the question that is asked, especially if it isn't asking to find literally everything you can out of a circuit, there often is a faster way to find elements such as the current in one spot.

Besides, I have a calculator that solves systems of however many equations, so no big worry.

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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby Unbihexium » March 18th, 2013, 8:02 pm

tangentline wrote:I think labeling our techniques is more confusing than just stating a problem and the steps taken to solve it.
Superposition, Node/Mesh Analysis, Thevenin/Norton, Kirchhoff, etc are all techniques that I just use intermixed to solve a problem the fastest way I see possible. If I see a viable shortcut to the "usual" method, I'll take it. There have been problems for example that "superposition" (I'm labeling) provides a quick and easy fix to multiple batteries---it depends on the question that is asked, especially if it isn't asking to find literally everything you can out of a circuit, there often is a faster way to find elements such as the current in one spot.

Besides, I have a calculator that solves systems of however many equations, so no big worry.


Ditto on that, same story i choose whats best at the moment and a calculator like that helps me alot too.. also i put a transient network analysis program on my calc in case some weird circuit came up
2012 Regionals: 5th Towers
2013 Athens Twin Tiers Invites: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 3rd Circuit Lab
2013 Regionals: 1st Boomilever, 1st Fermi, 1st Circuit Lab
2013 New York States: 3rd Fermi, 3rd Circuit Lab

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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby iwonder » March 18th, 2013, 8:13 pm

Wow... what kinds of tests have you all been getting? I've seen one test(out of 4 this year) that had norton and thevenin equivalents, and I haven't seen anything complicated from a circuit analysis standpoint. All I've seen is a battery and a resistor network... Maybe a charge curve equation or two, and one test had a diode thrown in just to trick people. sigh....
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby fourLoko » March 18th, 2013, 8:22 pm

Unbihexium wrote:Linear circuits have nothing to do with number of voltage sources a linear circuit means all elements have linear VI curves as opposed to things like diodes...google is your friend you missunderstand the deffinition
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_circuit#section_1


Ohhhh, my bad. I guess I've just never seen anything complicated enough to merit the definition of "nonlinear circuit" haha...
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby tangentline » March 18th, 2013, 8:29 pm

iwonder wrote:Wow... what kinds of tests have you all been getting? I've seen one test(out of 4 this year) that had norton and thevenin equivalents, and I haven't seen anything complicated from a circuit analysis standpoint. All I've seen is a battery and a resistor network... Maybe a charge curve equation or two, and one test had a diode thrown in just to trick people. sigh....


Lol. A ridiculously easy test, but I practiced because I thought I could beat the team that never gets below first at regionals and hasn't gotten below first at states for the past 8 years. Turns out, nope, now I get to freely talk about circuits without fear that a competitor will be using what I say. I wanted to show off to my future employer which is a utility company that is the main sponsor of the regionals...

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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby Infinity Flat » March 18th, 2013, 8:37 pm

We got a legit shock value test for our regional competition. I'm so jealous of you guys with your hard tests :(
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby cyanophycean314 » March 25th, 2013, 5:50 pm

I have uploaded the two Circuit Lab tests I wrote to the test exchange. Both were designed to be done in a shorter amount of time (20-25 min), so I just combined them.

There are some questions who are separated from their answer slot by a page break, but that's what happened when I converted from a Google Doc. I think most of you guys should be able to deal with it though. :P

Let me know if there are any errors with the answers! :)
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Re: Shock Value B/Circuit Lab C

Postby iwonder » March 25th, 2013, 6:00 pm

Umm, part 2 links to the part 2 key and part two key links to the part one key. :P

And the hazardous voltage to humans value varies depending on a lot of factors(where it's applied, sweat level, stuff like that) so it might help to clarify the question.
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