Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

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awesome90220
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by awesome90220 » February 26th, 2013, 4:29 pm

135scioly wrote:So you mean your internal beaker can't come out of your insulating device? I would think that might be difficult to fill up with hot water, and they might want to make sure it really is a 250 ml beaker for impound. So I'm guessing no....?
awesome90220 wrote:
sjwon3789 wrote:Also, do we need to take out our beaker? Like, my beaker is attached to this insulators (not transparent)...?
In the two competitions, I have had so far, I would have to say, YUP
:?
Yup means yes, you do have to take your beaker out
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by sjwon3789 » February 26th, 2013, 4:48 pm

Is there a text in the rules or FAQ that this is a MUST? Because I don't see why...except that you need to be eye level when putting the water in but you could also just estimate :| . Did anyone have any insulators nearly or attached to their beaker, because mine is challenging to take off and had an Event Supervisor REQUIRE you to take it out?
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by Luo » February 26th, 2013, 4:57 pm

sjwon3789 wrote:Is there a text in the rules or FAQ that this is a MUST? Because I don't see why...except that you need to be eye level when putting the water in but you could also just estimate :| . Did anyone have any insulators nearly or attached to their beaker, because mine is challenging to take off and had an Event Supervisor REQUIRE you to take it out?
Line 2 of Rule 4.a.iv strongly implies that the beaker must be outside of the device when the water is poured: "Each team...must have the set amount of water poured into each of their 2 beakers, one of which they must then insert into their device..." (emphasis mine)

As someone mentioned above, the beaker would also need to be removed for inspection to ensure it is identical to the other beaker.
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by harryk » February 26th, 2013, 5:13 pm

I don't know what the B rules say but the C rules state,
"Within the device, students must be able to easily insert and remove a 250mL, standard, unaltered, empty Pyrex(or similar brand) beaker"(Section 3.b)
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by sjwon3789 » February 26th, 2013, 5:25 pm

Now that I look at it, division B rules do say it. Also, I realized that my beaker is actually easy to take out, so I'm satisfied :D
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by ychen428 » February 26th, 2013, 8:17 pm

Are there any guidelines for when we are supposed to pour the hot water in? Like are we required to pour the water into the beaker outside and place the beaker inside, or just simply pour the water directly in and prove that it can be taken out later.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by sjwon3789 » February 26th, 2013, 8:23 pm

ychen428 wrote:Are there any guidelines for when we are supposed to pour the hot water in? Like are we required to pour the water into the beaker outside and place the beaker inside, or just simply pour the water directly in and prove that it can be taken out later.
Read the post by Luo. You must pour the water into the beaker THEN insert it into your device.
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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by GeorgeInNePa » February 28th, 2013, 7:51 pm

Zuul wrote:
135scioly wrote:We didn't have to impoud our calculator so I don't think it's required. Also, you're allowed to bring any type of calculator, I don't know why they would need to impound it.
We've never had our calculators impounded either, but the 2/17/13 FAQ posting - http://soinc.org/node/263 - says this:
(section: 2 / paragraph: d / line: 1)
02/17/2013 - 22:15 Are calculators (programmable in particular) to be impounded?
Yes
As a KTH event supervisor, I've never impounded calculators or not allowed students to bring calculators in with them. I'm just trying to get clarification as to the reason for the change, since I'm sure it will be asked. Thanks!
Same here.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by chalker » March 1st, 2013, 8:44 am

Regarding impounding the calculators, I thought it'd be helpful to publicly post some thoughts I've already privately provided to various people. Please note all of this is of course just my opinion and not the official position of SO:

Rule 2.d. clearly says all supplies, including tools must be impounded (while at the same time explicitly exempting eye protection). In my mind impound serves 2 primary purposes (and 1 secondary one):

Primary 1: It gives supervisors additional time to be able to check student built devices for compliance to the rule parameters
Primary 2: It ensures teams that compete later in the day don't have an unfair advantage as a result of event supervisor selected parameters leaking out after the first session (and thus allowing them to tweak devices / settings / etc no within the competition setting).
Secondary 1: It help reduce occurrences of students rushing from one event to the next and forgetting to bring critical items like notes / calculators / supplies and not having to lug tons of stuff around (they can just show up and know all their stuff is there).

I've heard from supervisors who thought NOT impounding calculators would create an unfair advantage for teams that compete later, who could potentially overhear the announced temp / time / volumes and do extensive calculations on a very sophisticated calculator (which they then bring to the event, effectively getting around item 2 above). The same applies to the binder (although a case could be made to allow outside notes for part 2, but that adds a burden to the supervisors to monitor).

Basic calculators are all you really need for this event, and are very cheap, so I don't see an added burden to the team having to have multiple calculators for SO.

That said, all of this is really only for the device testing. I'd be receptive to a way to word the FAQ to allow competitors to bring things in for the written test that doesn't create too much of an additional burden for the supervisors.

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Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by retired1 » March 1st, 2013, 3:07 pm

A vent (RANT)
At the regionals, the ES made the teams remove a mylar bag that was used as one layer of the thermos. First he said it was metal and was shown the rules. Then he said that it was plastic and was again shown the rules. His answer was then it was "commercial" as it was a snack food bag and would not accept that it was not "commercial insulation."
I sure hope that the folks at state can read better.

I hope that the rules committee for 2014 will be a little more specific. I for one do not understand how a wool sock can be considered a commercial insulator. It opens the door for challenging any cloth. To say that cotton balls are OK and cotton batting is NOT, makes me wonder about the logic. It makes being a coach very difficult.

Ok, so I am old!

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