Forensics C

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caseyotis
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Re: Forensics C

Postby caseyotis » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:47 am

piimasta314 wrote:
I'd say that knowing how to work in the setting and time management is the best advantage there is...at State my partner and I were both inexperienced. We studied the material but since we hadn't worked in such a setting before we didn't finish.


Ha, same for me in Crime Busters! I think once I do an invitational and get in the flow, I'll be ready for Forensics.
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Re: Forensics C

Postby salcedam » Thu May 02, 2013 6:54 am

pikachu4919 wrote:
kn_95 wrote:By the way, how do we do TLC? And how do we do it at Nationals (in other words, what tools do they provide)?
Is there any difference between doing TLC on an aluminum sheet and doing TLC on a piece of a plastic plate?
Thanks!


Although I haven't seen it before in my SciOly experience, I believe (more like I heard) that you set it up just like for paper chromatography but it's a glass slide with a silicon coating, probably google it for more information. I believe that it usually doesn't show up until nationals...so yeah. I can't really answer the second question because I've never seen TLC done with plastic or aluminum ...

Phew...I haven't posted in a LONG time, but anyway if you want to learn TLC, this video does a good job of showing you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FyQ_tO15U. TLC is generally done on a plastic plate. Not sure it CAN be done on an aluminum sheet as how is the ink/juice/paint going to stick and how is the solvent going to travel up aluminum? TLC does show up at Nationals and the Nationals Forensics supervisor, Linda Wozniewski (affectionately called "the Woz"), will put it on her test. She will provide the plates, the developing chamber, and the visualization chamber for you to use.
Last edited by salcedam on Fri May 03, 2013 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
2011 - 2012 Season Results:
Whiting, IN - Astro (1st), 4N6 (2nd), Fermi (2nd)
Boyceville, WI - Astro (3rd), 4N6 (1st)
Belvidere, IL - 4N6 (1st), Fermi (2nd)
WSU, OH - 4N6 (12th)
Loyola, IL - 4N6 (1st), Fermi (1st), TPS (3rd)
OCC Regional - 4N6 (1st), Fermi (1st)
UCF Nationals - 4N6 (8th)

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Re: Forensics C

Postby kn_95 » Fri May 03, 2013 5:39 am

salcedam wrote:
pikachu4919 wrote:
kn_95 wrote:By the way, how do we do TLC? And how do we do it at Nationals (in other words, what tools do they provide)?
Is there any difference between doing TLC on an aluminum sheet and doing TLC on a piece of a plastic plate?
Thanks!


Although I haven't seen it before in my SciOly experience, I believe (more like I heard) that you set it up just like for paper chromatography but it's a glass slide with a silicon coating, probably google it for more information. I believe that it usually doesn't show up until nationals...so yeah. I can't really answer the second question because I've never seen TLC done with plastic or aluminum ...

Phew...I haven't posted in a LONG time, but anyway if you want to be learn TLC, this video does a good job of showing you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FyQ_tO15U. TLC is generally done on a plastic plate. Not sure it CAN be done on an aluminum sheet as how is the ink/juice/paint going to stick and how is the solvent going to travel up aluminum? TLC does show up at Nationals and the Nationals Forensics supervisor, Linda Wozniewski (affectionately called "the Woz"), will put it on her test. She will provide the plates, the developing chamber, and the visualization chamber for you to use.

Wow, thank you very much for your input salcedam!
So she will provide the plastic plates (pre-silicate-coated), the developing chamber (already "developed"/built), and the visualization chamber (UV light I believe) for each group to use? Like are they built or we have to build the developing chamber and/or silicate-coat the plastic plates (which sound weird as the plates are technically professionally sprayed) and/or etc. on our own?
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Re: Forensics C

Postby salcedam » Fri May 03, 2013 6:16 am

kn_95 wrote:
salcedam wrote:
pikachu4919 wrote:Although I haven't seen it before in my SciOly experience, I believe (more like I heard) that you set it up just like for paper chromatography but it's a glass slide with a silicon coating, probably google it for more information. I believe that it usually doesn't show up until nationals...so yeah. I can't really answer the second question because I've never seen TLC done with plastic or aluminum ...

Phew...I haven't posted in a LONG time, but anyway if you want to learn TLC, this video does a good job of showing you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FyQ_tO15U. TLC is generally done on a plastic plate. Not sure it CAN be done on an aluminum sheet as how is the ink/juice/paint going to stick and how is the solvent going to travel up aluminum? TLC does show up at Nationals and the Nationals Forensics supervisor, Linda Wozniewski (affectionately called "the Woz"), will put it on her test. She will provide the plates, the developing chamber, and the visualization chamber for you to use.

Wow, thank you very much for your input salcedam!
So she will provide the plastic plates (pre-silicate-coated), the developing chamber (already "developed"/built), and the visualization chamber (UV light I believe) for each group to use? Like are they built or we have to build the developing chamber and/or silicate-coat the plastic plates (which sound weird as the plates are technically professionally sprayed) and/or etc. on our own?

Everything will be provided already made so you don't need to worry about anything concerning TLC except for knowing how to use the materials provided you. See, the way the Woz makes her tests is that she puts a LOT of questions but none of them are particularly challenging. Almost all of them are either you know it or you don't. So her tests are really a challenge to see who can do the ID'ing the fastest as well as who knows the most basic information. If you take a look at her old Nationals tests, she enjoys asking questions such as having you draw the chemical representation of a plastic or writing down the chemical reactions between certain solutions (e.g. "Write the chemical formula for Benedict's solution and ammonium chloride"). That is just information you should have on your sheet so you can just quickly copy it down.
2011 - 2012 Season Results:
Whiting, IN - Astro (1st), 4N6 (2nd), Fermi (2nd)
Boyceville, WI - Astro (3rd), 4N6 (1st)
Belvidere, IL - 4N6 (1st), Fermi (2nd)
WSU, OH - 4N6 (12th)
Loyola, IL - 4N6 (1st), Fermi (1st), TPS (3rd)
OCC Regional - 4N6 (1st), Fermi (1st)
UCF Nationals - 4N6 (8th)

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Re: Forensics C

Postby pikachu4919 » Sat May 04, 2013 3:20 am

salcedam wrote:
kn_95 wrote:
salcedam wrote:Phew...I haven't posted in a LONG time, but anyway if you want to learn TLC, this video does a good job of showing you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FyQ_tO15U. TLC is generally done on a plastic plate. Not sure it CAN be done on an aluminum sheet as how is the ink/juice/paint going to stick and how is the solvent going to travel up aluminum? TLC does show up at Nationals and the Nationals Forensics supervisor, Linda Wozniewski (affectionately called "the Woz"), will put it on her test. She will provide the plates, the developing chamber, and the visualization chamber for you to use.

Wow, thank you very much for your input salcedam!
So she will provide the plastic plates (pre-silicate-coated), the developing chamber (already "developed"/built), and the visualization chamber (UV light I believe) for each group to use? Like are they built or we have to build the developing chamber and/or silicate-coat the plastic plates (which sound weird as the plates are technically professionally sprayed) and/or etc. on our own?

Everything will be provided already made so you don't need to worry about anything concerning TLC except for knowing how to use the materials provided you. See, the way the Woz makes her tests is that she puts a LOT of questions but none of them are particularly challenging. Almost all of them are either you know it or you don't. So her tests are really a challenge to see who can do the ID'ing the fastest as well as who knows the most basic information. If you take a look at her old Nationals tests, she enjoys asking questions such as having you draw the chemical representation of a plastic or writing down the chemical reactions between certain solutions (e.g. "Write the chemical formula for Benedict's solution and ammonium chloride"). That is just information you should have on your sheet so you can just quickly copy it down.


Since I live in Indiana, the Woz is the supervisor for the lab events of the majority of the competitions my team goes to XD ... but yes that's basically a good summary of her tests. She also usually asks to provide the name of the powder given the formula or vice versa, balance a chemical reaction, monomer structure or chemical formula and polymerization for plastics, and definitely for all questions about general knowledge of topics and of course: "ON WHAT BASIS DID YOU MAKE THE ID?" but technically I actually really like Woz's test formats because the questions are easy as long as you know the stuff, and IDing the polymers isn't too bad, maybe powders and mass spec may give you some troubles, though ... and she doesn't provide microscope slides or cover slips for fibers and hair, unfortunately ...
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Nationals 2016 ~ 4th place Forensics


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Re: Forensics C

Postby kn_95 » Wed May 15, 2013 11:36 pm

Also, do we use the same developing chamber for juice? Or we can just use water as the mobile phase (with paper chromatography)?
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Re: Forensics C

Postby lmatkovic3 » Thu May 23, 2013 8:34 pm

nevermind

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Re: Forensics C

Postby Asteroidea » Mon May 27, 2013 5:05 pm

Hi!

I'm pretty new to this event and I want to make my cheat sheet over the summer. For most tests do the event supervisors provide the solution's densities? Or do they just have them labeled with what they are? (ie Saturated NaCl) Also, what would you guys consider as the most common solutions provided? Thanks!

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Re: Forensics C

Postby pikachu4919 » Mon May 27, 2013 6:15 pm

Asteroidea wrote:Hi!

I'm pretty new to this event and I want to make my cheat sheet over the summer. For most tests do the event supervisors provide the solution's densities? Or do they just have them labeled with what they are? (ie Saturated NaCl) Also, what would you guys consider as the most common solutions provided? Thanks!


Just FYI I'm basing my response off of Forensics tests that "The Woz" writes (I live in her state so she supervises lab events for competitions here), but the solutions dealing with density are mainly used for the plastics, and they will generally be provided, but you can include them on your cheat sheet just in case the supervisors don't provide them. She will generally label the liquids from 1-6, and they are in correct density order, but they are corn oil, 46% isopropyl alcohol, distilled water, 10% NaCl, 25% NaCl, and saturated NaCl, respectively, and their densities are (in g/cm^3) 0.917, 0.950, 1.000, 1.07, 1.19, and 1.25, respectively. idk what your supervisor would do, but this is how things roll in my state, and probably at nationals as well since The Woz is a national supervisor. PM me if you want more information/help on this event.
Carmel HS (IN) '16
Purdue BiolE '20
Nationals 2016 ~ 4th place Forensics


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MY CABBAGES!

Purdue WL SciOly Exec Board
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~scienceo/index.html
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