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Mission Possible Starting Task Question

Posted: October 17th, 2012, 6:36 pm
by [Mean]Gene
Hello Scioly community,

For the starting task, the TSL states "Initiate the first action by dropping a US quarter coin into the device from a position higher than the entire device"
Does it mean we should drop the quarter from the top of the box, or above all the simple machines in the TSL, because the parameters state that all parts of the device must fit and stay within a 60x60x60 cube the only exception being the final task.

Thank you in advance.

Re: Mission Possible Starting Task Question

Posted: October 17th, 2012, 7:24 pm
by XJcwolfyX
The final task is considered part of the device, so, yes, I would drop it from higher than the final task as well. Say your final task goes up to 70 cm, then you should drop it from 71 cm.

Re: Mission Possible Starting Task Question

Posted: October 27th, 2012, 8:02 am
by goodcheer
The 60 cm cube is an imaginary boundary but the box you build (if you even build a box) is a part of the device which must stay within the boundary. The only exception to the 60 cm rule is the final task which may rise higher than 60 cm (but does not have to). When you drop the quarter into the device, it must be released from a point above the entire device which would include the box you build and all its parts. If the box you build is only 20 cm high and all the parts fit under that level, the quarter could be released at 21 cm. In my opinion, the quarter would not have to be released above the final level of the final task since the final task has not been executed yet when the quarter is released. The final height of the final task is given as the only exception to the 60 cm boundary limit and does not seem to determine at what level the quarter is to be released. As long as it is released from a point above all parts of the entire device as it stands at the start, it should be o.k.

Re: Mission Possible Starting Task Question

Posted: November 16th, 2012, 12:39 pm
by hogger
I look at it this way. Consider the rule stated in section 3a: The only exception to this limit is the last movement of the final task.

It could be argued that the intent of this rule is that the final task must be initially completely inside the 60x60x60cm cube, and its last movement is allowed to extend beyond the cube. If this is the case, then the coin can be dropped anywhere above the highest point of the imaginary cube that is enclosing all of your devices initially.

Re: Mission Possible Starting Task Question

Posted: November 16th, 2012, 11:50 pm
by fleet130
In the past some event supervisors interpreted this to mean the quarter (may have been a different object back then) must be released above the 60 cm (also a different measurement then) maximum height of the device, regardless of the actual height. Don't ask me how they arrived at this conclusion, I only know it happened. It's probably not the strangest interpretation/misinterpretation of the rules I've seen, but it's near the top of the list.

Starting task

Posted: February 4th, 2013, 4:50 am
by tgaspar
Reading through the possible pitfalls, I came across this for 4a: The action started by the quarter must not be a scorable task.... What does this mean? We were planning to drop a quarter into a pipe so it would land on a circuit (completing it) and start a fan. The fan will be blowing the air for task 4c. Does this sound like our quarter is part of a scorable task? Or does it sound one step removed? Thanks! :D

Re: Starting task

Posted: February 4th, 2013, 6:48 am
by hogger
It sounds to me like the coin travelling through the pipe can be a non-scoring task. The dropping starts the process of the coin travelling through the pipe. Make sure you say that in the TSL and list the coin travelling through the pipe as a separate task and non-scoring. If you want to be sure, maybe the coin should hit a metal ball that travels through the pipe and complete the circuit at the end. Disclaimer: this is in my opinion only, not an official rule clarification.

Re: Starting task

Posted: February 4th, 2013, 7:29 am
by tgaspar
Thank you! Should I list it like this?

1. coin drops through a pipe
2. coin completes a circuit to turn on fan
3. air blows car down track

or
1. coin drops through the pipe and completes a circuit to turn on fan
2. air blows car down track

Thank you again for your opinion. :D

Re: Starting task

Posted: February 4th, 2013, 8:37 am
by hogger
Thank you! Should I list it like this?

1. coin drops through a pipe
2. coin completes a circuit to turn on fan
3. air blows car down track

or
1. coin drops through the pipe and completes a circuit to turn on fan
2. air blows car down track

Thank you again for your opinion. :D
I would do something like this. (Again not an official clarification)

Tasks:
1. coin drops above the device into a pipe ( xxx points)
2. coin enters the pipe and travels down the pipe and come to rest to complete a circuit (non-scoring)
3. a fan is turned on blowing a car down the track ( xxx points)

If the supervisor does not agree that #2 is a real task, you might lose the score for #1.

Re: Starting task

Posted: March 4th, 2013, 9:26 am
by goodcheer
Thank you! Should I list it like this?

1. coin drops through a pipe
2. coin completes a circuit to turn on fan
3. air blows car down track

or
1. coin drops through the pipe and completes a circuit to turn on fan
2. air blows car down track

Thank you again for your opinion. :D
As hogger hints, you should make sure you get the start task right to get the 100 points. Even if the second task is not counted, you need to get the first one. To me rule 4a seems to be saying the quarter must initiate an action and the action that it initiates must not be a scorable one. So, in my opinion, just dropping a quarter is not enough for fulfilling the start task. Dropping the coin and completing a circuit would seem to be enough for the start task. If the coin struck a lever (some switches are levers) and the lever completed the circuit, that seems even more certain to get points for both the start task and the air task.