parallel tasks

simoncao
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parallel tasks

Post by simoncao » January 8th, 2013, 4:23 pm

theoretically, if you used the 3 gear system (4.k) and the final axle of the system turned another gear connected to a rack and pinion gear (4.h), would that be counted as a parallel task or doing two tasks with the same action? Also, does non-electrical gears mean not powered by a motor?

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Re: parallel tasks

Post by ramcoach » January 10th, 2013, 8:53 am

I submitted the question about what the definition is of a "non-electric gear" to the official website over a month ago and have not seen a reply posted. People in this forum (on a different thread) seem to agree that it means the gear system can't be powered by a motor. It would be nice to get official clarification, but I'm not holding my breath.

I think that the setup you describe is legitimate as long as the final gear in 4.k turns at least 360 degrees. I believe one interpretation for "parallel" tasks that has been in use asks whether or not the device would still run if the task was removed. Your 4.k setup directly contributes to your 4.h.

Of course, the argument could be made that your 4.k is happening at the same time as your 4.h. Maybe there's a way to make sure the conditions of 4.k (turning the final gear at least 360 degrees) happens before you start measuring 4.h (moving an object 5.0 cm. with a rack and pinion gear.)

I have a major issue with the wording of the new rule 3.b.v.("Each moveable/adjustable physical object in the device can only be utilized by one assigned task"), which is your other concern. It seems to me that lots of objects are utilized by two tasks. If the object is being moved, lifted, poured, or pushed in one action so that it causes the next action, doesn't that mean it's being utilized by two assigned tasks? Just wondering.

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Re: parallel tasks

Post by chalker » January 10th, 2013, 4:40 pm

ramcoach wrote:I submitted the question about what the definition is of a "non-electric gear" to the official website over a month ago and have not seen a reply posted. People in this forum (on a different thread) seem to agree that it means the gear system can't be powered by a motor. It would be nice to get official clarification, but I'm not holding my breath.
You'll eventually get a reply. Please keep in mind that the process for responding to questions involves multiple people and steps (i.e. it's not just 1 person coming up with a response, we do this somewhat by committee to ensure we don't miss something important). And virtually all of those people that are involved (including myself) are volunteers with day jobs who also are very involved in SO in other ways (coaching teams, running invitational tournaments, etc).

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Re: parallel tasks

Post by SALIA » February 1st, 2013, 8:43 am

guys - how do you make the gear/screw move without using the motor? please give me some ideas?

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Re: parallel tasks

Post by knittingfrenzy18 » February 1st, 2013, 11:08 am

You could maybe have a load on a string that when suspended in mid air could unwind the string around an axle, therefore rotating it, but the best way to go is a motor.
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Re: parallel tasks

Post by hogger » February 1st, 2013, 11:22 am

knittingfrenzy18 wrote:You could maybe have a load on a string that when suspended in mid air could unwind the string around an axle, therefore rotating it, but the best way to go is a motor.
But you are not supposed to use a motor based on the wording that this task must be "non-electrical".

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Re: parallel tasks

Post by knittingfrenzy18 » February 1st, 2013, 11:25 am

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of the fact. I'm just visiting this forum based on the fact that I'm a MP veteran, and I actually don't even have a good understanding of the rules.

Probably the weight idea is my only idea, but it seems very independable. I guess you/I could look up more on energy transfers and think about how you could convert [motion here] to rotational energy.
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Re: parallel tasks

Post by ramcoach » February 2nd, 2013, 7:04 pm

A dropping mass attached to a string wrapped around an axle is one place to start - you can get a lot of variability with the diameter of the axles and the size of the gears you use.

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Re: parallel tasks

Post by riceman » February 3rd, 2013, 1:50 pm

So if your device has a parallel task how does that affect the scoring? Would you get credit for one of the tasks and not the other? Or lose points on both tasks? I also understand that this wold be a build violation and put the device in Tier 2. What is exactly the intent of the tiered system? Would a Tier 2 device still be eligible to compete and win on the merit of the other legal tasks?

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Re: parallel tasks

Post by hogger » February 3rd, 2013, 4:30 pm

riceman wrote:So if your device has a parallel task how does that affect the scoring? Would you get credit for one of the tasks and not the other? Or lose points on both tasks? I also understand that this wold be a build violation and put the device in Tier 2. What is exactly the intent of the tiered system? Would a Tier 2 device still be eligible to compete and win on the merit of the other legal tasks?
See section 9 (Tiers). Parallel or dead end paths will result in tier 3. The winning order of teams are determined first by the tier your device is placed in, the points are secondary criteria. For example, tier 1 devices always beat tier 2 devices which in turn always beat tier 3 devices, and so on. Within the same tier, device with more points beats device with less points.

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