Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

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wlsguy
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Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

Post by wlsguy » March 17th, 2013, 8:03 am

Yesterday was the Piqua Regional in Ohio. Mission was run by one of the people who helped write the rules and will help at Nationals.
Our schools team was 2nd tiered because of the capaciter on the motor left over from the RC car they removed it from.
Yes, it is a prohibited item (from 3.c.) so we should have known better.
It was originally there to reduce interference for the RC car but is now non-functional. They removed it to show it does nothing.

The problem is, the motor was buried under several different tasks and you really had to look for it.
When we asked about it, we were told other people have asked about these in the FAQs so he knows to look for them.
He was obviously looking for a way to DQ teams.
Also, we asked about the integrated circuits in many drill and other batteries (used on other devices) and were told he knows they are there but these are ok (somehow).

Anyway, just a warning for those who make it to Nationals, check and double check your devices.....
Last edited by wlsguy on March 17th, 2013, 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Schrodingerscat
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Re: Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

Post by Schrodingerscat » March 17th, 2013, 8:16 am

Personally I do not see any reason to post anything on the national site if it is already mentioned in the rules (assuming it is from what you said, have not read them).

wlsguy
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Re: Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

Post by wlsguy » March 17th, 2013, 8:31 am

I feel, if they get enough people asking about it, it must not be very clear.
Also not addressed were the status of couplers, LEDs, terminals, connectors, thermistors, and enclosed prohibited items
Since most rechargable batteries contain prohibited items, are these acceptable?
http://www.electricbike.com/lithium-cobalt-magnanese/

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Re: Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

Post by hogger » March 17th, 2013, 10:09 am

My take is if you know that it is uncertain or questionable, you either clarify or don't use it and risk being DQ. Use something else that you know for sure would be legal. I am sorry it happens, and if I was someone running it, I might let it go since it is not an active device. I wouldn't say you are a victim, the letters of the rule are being followed here. There is no need for a faq to interpret the words that no other unlisted electrical components are permitted.

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Re: Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

Post by wlsguy » March 17th, 2013, 11:01 am

We are obviously not the victim, it is in the rules and the kids forgot to remove it.
My concern is, if questions are sent to the National office for clarification, why don't they get posted so everyone sees the answer.

If an event supervisor follows the rules to the letter, only "batteries, wires, mechanical switches, and up to 3 motors are permitted" then if the motor already contains, from the manufacturer, a capaciter, is it prohibited? What about all of the other electrical components (terminals, couplers, LEDs found on batteries, and those inside of motors and batteries).
Most of the Mission Devices I have seen have at least 1 coupler or terminal. Because these are not on the approved list they are prohibited.

My point is to warn teams to carefully examine their device and remove ALL componets other than "batteries, wires mechical switches, and motors".
The National Event supervisor will be looking for any reason to 2nd tier you.

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Re: Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

Post by hogger » March 17th, 2013, 11:59 am

I am not the authority on the rules, but a motor is a motor, whatever are enclosed within the whole assembly is a motor. A simple coupler or a terminal is not an electrical device. It does not change the electrical signal in anyway. My sense is that you cannot write an airtight rules that cover every single details that can ever come up, I tend to go by the spirit of the rule and what would be fair intent of the wording and the bounds it tries to set. I agree that several questions in the clarification are removed and certain ones are kept, I have no idea why. Why not leave everything intact for everyone to see. Maybe it gets too prohibitively large, I don't know.

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Re: Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

Post by Jkwashbourne » March 17th, 2013, 5:19 pm

hogger wrote:... I agree that several questions in the clarification are removed and certain ones are kept, I have no idea why. Why not leave everything intact for everyone to see. Maybe it gets too prohibitively large, I don't know.
hogger, could you please point to where you see the clarifications you discuss? Maybe there is some public information that I have not seen. Thanks, John.

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Re: Don't be 2nd tiered because of motors

Post by hogger » March 17th, 2013, 5:53 pm

I am referring to the national website rule clarification faq:

http://www.soinc.org/frequently_asked_questions

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