Texas 2013

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Re: Texas 2013

Postby iwonder » May 8th, 2013, 4:57 pm

Barker wrote:
GeoChamp96 wrote:Well, at any rate, it seems like Friday mostly effected everyone the same way (except possibly the MagLev test and those pesky Storm the Castle winds), so I doubt the scores were impacted too much. Fortunately, Saturday went a lot better...

This year has definitely inspired my team to work harder and hopefully make a shot at the top 5 next year. I hope we can get enough people to make it happen though...


This was actually the first year that my team didn't have any major engineering failures (last year our robot arm was a box of saltines, some cardboard and a bottle of arizona tea) so that was good since this year we got 4th :D


I remember that... I kinda followed your robot arm guys through the year, when we met up at various contests we compare arms and discuss how we were doing certain things... First time I got to see the full national arm was at state and it was in a box dead. That really sucked... I wanted to see it run as well :D
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Re: Texas 2013

Postby GeoChamp96 » May 8th, 2013, 7:53 pm

sofan wrote:
jlee7x2 wrote:
sofan wrote:same for us. And we need to decide quicker when we want to appeal. (it tooks us 20 min to decide whether we wanted to tell the judges that we got less time than the even teams.Whole process took 1 hour.We still got 4th.)(triple E)


I'm really glad that your teams feel this way. Here's to next year being super competitive and anybody's game! It's no fun if the same teams win years and years in a row :P

yes we shall try our best at every level of competition and work hard at practices.


It will be interesting to see how many (if any) teams make that extra step to have a shot at the title like Clements. I hope there will be at least a few, it will make it more competitive and fun.

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Re: Texas 2013

Postby Barker » May 9th, 2013, 11:31 am

GeoChamp96 wrote:
sofan wrote:yes we shall try our best at every level of competition and work hard at practices.


It will be interesting to see how many (if any) teams make that extra step to have a shot at the title like Clements. I hope there will be at least a few, it will make it more competitive and fun.


I agree that competition is good and it improves all the teams involved, but I hate Texas events. I think that the chance for maybe compete in some extra events that students might be more interested in is a nice thing to have as the Texas events cover areas of science that maybe aren't addressed otherwise. I don't know about most teams but many teams (like Clements and Seven Lakes) have in the past used them to avoid competing events that they think they might not do well in in the hopes of placing better overall, their way of "leveling the playing field". In this way they deincentivize the hard work of, as a team, trying to improve your worst events. This is an effort, not to sound cliche or hokey, improves character, the willingness to work hard instead of just giving up is extremely important and it is odd that in an academic competition we allow that that to happen.

I'll admit that I am from LASA, but this isn't just bitterness talking. But what do you think kept LASA state champions for so long? It wasn't giving up. Do you think that we are so much basically smarter than you that other teams need some handicap? LASA doesn't compete in Texas events, not because we don't think we don't need them but because we have decided that we want to do as well at Nationals as possible, which means working hard to improve what we're worst at. We don't have more resources than anyone else, we just have dedicated members willing to work hard for months. In January we went to an Invitational in Ohio, I don't remember exactly what place it was, but we did really poorly in Water Quality, bottom half almost. So for the past 3 months we got cranking, we studied hard an devoted ourselves to this event and got 2nd last weekend.

So I hope that teams are willing to take "that extra step", as long as it doesn't involve giving up.
TREES!

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Re: Texas 2013

Postby GeoChamp96 » May 9th, 2013, 11:54 am

Barker wrote:
GeoChamp96 wrote:
sofan wrote:yes we shall try our best at every level of competition and work hard at practices.


It will be interesting to see how many (if any) teams make that extra step to have a shot at the title like Clements. I hope there will be at least a few, it will make it more competitive and fun.


I agree that competition is good and it improves all the teams involved, but I hate Texas events. I think that the chance for maybe compete in some extra events that students might be more interested in is a nice thing to have as the Texas events cover areas of science that maybe aren't addressed otherwise. I don't know about most teams but many teams (like Clements and Seven Lakes) have in the past used them to avoid competing events that they think they might not do well in in the hopes of placing better overall, their way of "leveling the playing field". In this way they deincentivize the hard work of, as a team, trying to improve your worst events. This is an effort, not to sound cliche or hokey, improves character, the willingness to work hard instead of just giving up is extremely important and it is odd that in an academic competition we allow that that to happen.

I'll admit that I am from LASA, but this isn't just bitterness talking. But what do you think kept LASA state champions for so long? It wasn't giving up. Do you think that we are so much basically smarter than you that other teams need some handicap? LASA doesn't compete in Texas events, not because we don't think we don't need them but because we have decided that we want to do as well at Nationals as possible, which means working hard to improve what we're worst at. We don't have more resources than anyone else, we just have dedicated members willing to work hard for months. In January we went to an Invitational in Ohio, I don't remember exactly what place it was, but we did really poorly in Water Quality, bottom half almost. So for the past 3 months we got cranking, we studied hard an devoted ourselves to this event and got 2nd last weekend.

So I hope that teams are willing to take "that extra step", as long as it doesn't involve giving up.


It's not "giving up" so much as it's playing to your strengths. Most of us honestly aren't really thinking about nationals as much except a vague dream. We do the events we're best at/enjoy doing most, and if that helps our overall score, so much the better.

If Texas suddenly decided to drop all of its trial events, all the teams would no doubt do exactly what you said, improve at the ones they're worst at since they'd have no other choice. Instead, they have an opportunity to place somewhat higher instead of banging their heads against the wall.

I think it's just that most teams have different priorities from LASA. Almost none of us will ever go to nationals, so we just do the ones we like the most and try to have a slightly better overall team score.

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Re: Texas 2013

Postby iwonder » May 9th, 2013, 11:56 am

But you have to realize, a lot of us are trying hard simply to get to nationals in the first place. We(CyFalls) competed in as many trial events as possible, not because we didn't want to try hard, but because no matter how hard we try, we still struggle to beat you guys. And I know for a fact you have more resources than us. People are willing to donate to your builders, you had a plasma table donated from te community. You've got a laser cutter and cnc tooling. Last year your head builder owned a lathe. The only laser cutter I even have access too doesn't do any more than engrave. Our shop has no metalworking tools, even if it did we couldn't use it because our shop teacher doesn't let us in the shop. We're not lazy by any respect, we just don't have your resources, or time. We don't get to spend a class period each day on scioly. We don't get graded on how we do and we don't get to see the team every day. I have to pay for every build I do, and it's expensive. I don't get anything donated because we haven't been to nationals in years. Even so, Houston isn't a town with lots small businesses willing to help out, everyone here is in oil and doesn't do charity.

Texas events let us actually compete. There's no sense in calling schools lazy when you don't know our circumstances.


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Re: Texas 2013

Postby Barker » May 9th, 2013, 1:07 pm

Our worst events are often our building events. Our school happens to have a pretty good shop, it tends to end up that when we actually use it, nothing works. Last year we tried to engrave our gravity vehicle and ended up setting it on fire. Over all, we lose points on engineering so that can't be the source. Also, we haven't had a SciO class in 3 years and we only practice twice a week (which are probably everybody's least productive times (we end up just eating a lot of popcorn and gossiping)) but we make up for that by going home and being self-motivating and working on our own. I will admit that LASA spends quite a bit on buying balsa and other engineering supplies (like servos for robot) but this money doesn't come out of no where, we fundraise, like everyone has the option to do. Every year around the holidays we go to an alum's ranch, pick mistletoe, and hand it out asking for donations. It isn't uncommon for our members to come to competition on partial scholarship because their families can't afford the hotel and registration cost. We don't get anything we don't work for, people have donated to our builders because our builders sought out companies and submitted proposals, something anyone can do. In the end though, most of our fancy expensive devices have ended up over engineered and useless, you probably beat us on those.

A personal example: over winter break I ended up getting put on Gravity vehicle, over the weekend I built a ramp and car from two by fours and some threaded rod I picked up at home depot in my garage with the only power tool being a hand-held drill. It was pretty respectable. After regionals, I asked around and managed to get parts of my vehicle 3D-printed and made a $75 order to McMaster Carr, assembly took a few days. This vehicle did not work any better than the first. But it's pretty so we used it at state anyways, it ran exactly as we expected, and then ended up being our worst ranking event. Huh

I'm not trying to invalidate your argument, I just want to show that can't be the only reason why we were on top.
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Re: Texas 2013

Postby jacobxc » May 9th, 2013, 1:17 pm

iwonder wrote:But you have to realize, a lot of us are trying hard simply to get to nationals in the first place. We(CyFalls) competed in as many trial events as possible, not because we didn't want to try hard, but because no matter how hard we try, we still struggle to beat you guys. And I know for a fact you have more resources than us. People are willing to donate to your builders, you had a plasma table donated from te community. You've got a laser cutter and cnc tooling. Last year your head builder owned a lathe. The only laser cutter I even have access too doesn't do any more than engrave. Our shop has no metalworking tools, even if it did we couldn't use it because our shop teacher doesn't let us in the shop. We're not lazy by any respect, we just don't have your resources, or time. We don't get to spend a class period each day on scioly. We don't get graded on how we do and we don't get to see the team every day. I have to pay for every build I do, and it's expensive. I don't get anything donated because we haven't been to nationals in years. Even so, Houston isn't a town with lots small businesses willing to help out, everyone here is in oil and doesn't do charity.

Texas events let us actually compete. There's no sense in calling schools lazy when you don't know our circumstances.


I don't mean to sound mean, but you've found my soapbox :D


You are not the only one in that boat. My Build team(Kingwood) consists of 3 students and all the tool we use are from our houses. We ourselves buy everything we use. Yet we always finish near the top. Also you said "We don't get to spend a class period each day on scioly." neither do we. We just put countless hours in the weekends to work. Why do you think I was so mad about my car iwonder? Having an undefeated car put down because of the proctors mistake after all the time i put into it. So like I said you are not the only one.
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Re: Texas 2013

Postby sofan » May 9th, 2013, 2:48 pm

Barker wrote:
GeoChamp96 wrote:
sofan wrote:yes we shall try our best at every level of competition and work hard at practices.


It will be interesting to see how many (if any) teams make that extra step to have a shot at the title like Clements. I hope there will be at least a few, it will make it more competitive and fun.


I agree that competition is good and it improves all the teams involved, but I hate Texas events. I think that the chance for maybe compete in some extra events that students might be more interested in is a nice thing to have as the Texas events cover areas of science that maybe aren't addressed otherwise. I don't know about most teams but many teams (like Clements and Seven Lakes) have in the past used them to avoid competing events that they think they might not do well in in the hopes of placing better overall, their way of "leveling the playing field". In this way they deincentivize the hard work of, as a team, trying to improve your worst events. This is an effort, not to sound cliche or hokey, improves character, the willingness to work hard instead of just giving up is extremely important and it is odd that in an academic competition we allow that that to happen.

I'll admit that I am from LASA, but this isn't just bitterness talking. But what do you think kept LASA state champions for so long? It wasn't giving up. Do you think that we are so much basically smarter than you that other teams need some handicap? LASA doesn't compete in Texas events, not because we don't think we don't need them but because we have decided that we want to do as well at Nationals as possible, which means working hard to improve what we're worst at. We don't have more resources than anyone else, we just have dedicated members willing to work hard for months. In January we went to an Invitational in Ohio, I don't remember exactly what place it was, but we did really poorly in Water Quality, bottom half almost. So for the past 3 months we got cranking, we studied hard an devoted ourselves to this event and got 2nd last weekend.

So I hope that teams are willing to take "that extra step", as long as it doesn't involve giving up.

Why go to ohio just for an invitational? is it to go against Solon? I would understand other nearby states but why would you go to ohio?
New school year! New scioly season! Another year to do something great!

2013 galveston regionals:
rotor: 3rd
pic: 2nd(Texas event)
overall:3rd
2013 state:
rotor:4th
overall: 12th :I

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Re: Texas 2013

Postby sofan » May 9th, 2013, 2:52 pm

iwonder wrote:But you have to realize, a lot of us are trying hard simply to get to nationals in the first place. We(CyFalls) competed in as many trial events as possible, not because we didn't want to try hard, but because no matter how hard we try, we still struggle to beat you guys. And I know for a fact you have more resources than us. People are willing to donate to your builders, you had a plasma table donated from te community. You've got a laser cutter and cnc tooling. Last year your head builder owned a lathe. The only laser cutter I even have access too doesn't do any more than engrave. Our shop has no metalworking tools, even if it did we couldn't use it because our shop teacher doesn't let us in the shop. We're not lazy by any respect, we just don't have your resources, or time. We don't get to spend a class period each day on scioly. We don't get graded on how we do and we don't get to see the team every day. I have to pay for every build I do, and it's expensive. I don't get anything donated because we haven't been to nationals in years. Even so, Houston isn't a town with lots small businesses willing to help out, everyone here is in oil and doesn't do charity.

Texas events let us actually compete. There's no sense in calling schools lazy when you don't know our circumstances.


I don't mean to sound mean, but you've found my soapbox :D

I agree. We subsituted some events to get out of crime busters because we dont have the materials for it. Its no use going into it and getting into the bottom half when you can do a texas event and get top 10
New school year! New scioly season! Another year to do something great!

2013 galveston regionals:
rotor: 3rd
pic: 2nd(Texas event)
overall:3rd
2013 state:
rotor:4th
overall: 12th :I

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Re: Texas 2013

Postby iwonder » May 9th, 2013, 2:53 pm

The wright state invitational. I'm not sure how anyone raises enough money to pay for that. We tried to fundraise this year and started asking for corporate sponsorships and stuff... Took us two months to raise enough to pay for the hotel rooms at state.
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Re: Texas 2013

Postby jacobxc » May 9th, 2013, 3:43 pm

iwonder wrote:The wright state invitational. I'm not sure how anyone raises enough money to pay for that. We tried to fundraise this year and started asking for corporate sponsorships and stuff... Took us two months to raise enough to pay for the hotel rooms at state.

Do you guys not collect dues because we only have 13 people in SO and that piad for 75% of our state cost and you guys have enough for 2 teams. So if you don't collect dues at the begin of each I would suggest taking up $10-$20 at the beginning of each year.
Real atheletes run miles not yards

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Re: Texas 2013

Postby iwonder » May 9th, 2013, 3:47 pm

We do, but it goes towards t-shirts, good, and the other 2 trips/4 contests we went to. We host an invite as well, but... Yeah...
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Re: Texas 2013

Postby sofan » May 9th, 2013, 4:31 pm

we had to start over this year from scratch because we had a new coach. Not a lot of supplies. we had to pay $50 for our due. We still had to pay for stuff on the trip and for materials.
New school year! New scioly season! Another year to do something great!

2013 galveston regionals:
rotor: 3rd
pic: 2nd(Texas event)
overall:3rd
2013 state:
rotor:4th
overall: 12th :I

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Re: Texas 2013

Postby harryk » May 9th, 2013, 4:52 pm

Lots of discussion going on here

-I think having Texas events is good thing. It allows teams to focus more on the things they're better at and enjoy the competition more. Also, it adds another aspect to the competition because when choosing which events to exempt you have to consider which events might be more or less competitive or more or less random. For example we don't like to do events like Science Word/Picture This because it can be very random and hard to prepare for. We also didn't do Towers last year because our builder was new and was still learning and Towers is one of the most competitive events.

-As far as money goes, I don't think there's any arguing that some teams are better funded/have more resources than others. However, I will agree with Barker that there is no substitute for simple dedication and hard work. Also, while just about any team can seek sponsorship or fundraising, I do think it will be much easier for some teams than others to get the money they need.

jacobxc wrote:
iwonder wrote:The wright state invitational. I'm not sure how anyone raises enough money to pay for that. We tried to fundraise this year and started asking for corporate sponsorships and stuff... Took us two months to raise enough to pay for the hotel rooms at state.

Do you guys not collect dues because we only have 13 people in SO and that piad for 75% of our state cost and you guys have enough for 2 teams. So if you don't collect dues at the begin of each I would suggest taking up $10-$20 at the beginning of each year.

We collect $20 dues at the beginning of each year, however half of this goes to paying for shirts and what remains doesn't even cover registration with the state. Then we have to pay at least couple hundred for each invitational and travel fees for state. Fortunately we've been surviving on our excess funds from 2010 when we last did fundraisers for our nationals trip. Though we are planning to have a fundraiser next year.
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Re: Texas 2013

Postby jacobxc » May 9th, 2013, 5:04 pm

For anyone who is looking for donations from organizations. Look and see if you area, town, or cities has a rotary club. They gave us and Riverwood a combined total of I think $1200 so I think that would help you all.
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