New York 2013

Shad160
Member
Member
Posts: 126
Joined: March 7th, 2009, 3:32 pm
Division: Grad
State: NY
Location: Hicksville -> URochester '17

Re: New York 2013

Postby Shad160 » July 30th, 2013, 2:13 pm

For clarity's sake, I would like to say that when i said that West Point and M-W were more central, i meant that it was more population-centered rather than geographic-centered. I understand that coming down from somewhere like Plattsburgh is still a huge pain, but for the majority of teams those two locations appeased them. For the majority of teams (not just long island, but also central ny and other parts) , it was a trip that only needed one night of staying at a hotel, and for many of the majority it could also be done in a school bus. There wasn't much of an uproar over M-W's location last year, and that's why i called it more "reasonable"

For fairness sake, this evens out with the trip to Buffalo, except this time many more teams will save the money as compared to before
What happens on Alpha Lyrae, stays on Alpha Lyrae.

andrewwski
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 953
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 7:36 pm
Division: Grad

Re: New York 2013

Postby andrewwski » July 30th, 2013, 5:17 pm

West Point is probably a good of a location for people from Plattsburgh as any though. Save for Albany, it's closer than just about any other major city. And it's a small city compared to the Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse/Albany chain.

Although if I were a competitor, I'd want it to be further away. Not as fun if it's close to home. And choosing different areas as long as West Point is out of the loop is a good idea as well, gives more exposure to different areas.

But YUSO is right, the tournament directors often do not have many options, and I think several organizers have even mentioned on this site that having a school willing and able to host is often the biggest factor.

I'm sensing some people here from the NYC area don't have a great sense of NY state geography. Having the tournament somewhere like West Point is nothing you should consider far. For someone in Buffalo, that'd be like having the tournament in Rochester...which would practically feel like your backyard...err your neighbor's backyard.

Somewhere like Albany or Syracuse would probably be one hotel-night for most of the state. That would be more "central." But what's the fun in that too? Honestly, my former team (from Buffalo) is always more excited if they get to travel to West Point or nearby than traveling to someplace just an hour or two away. I believe they also did West Point as a one-nighter too and drove back immediately following the closing ceremony. And that was a 6+ hour drive. But they loved every minute of it. Plus I hear West Point is really nice. So I honestly think a lot of upstate teams would prefer if it were at West Point or somewhere like that. At least the ones from this region always have.

User avatar
pjgscioisamazing
Member
Member
Posts: 539
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 3:46 pm
Division: Grad
State: NY

Re: New York 2013

Postby pjgscioisamazing » July 30th, 2013, 5:46 pm

Plus I hear West Point is really nice. So I honestly think a lot of upstate teams would prefer if it were at West Point or somewhere like that. At least the ones from this region always have.
West Point was a wonderful place to hold the tournament. Beautiful campus, nice buildings, and good campus for a tournament. I was under the impression that it would be back there this year, but I'm guessing construction is taking longer than anticipated?
2007-2012. Paul J Gelinas Jr High and Ward Melville High School

Astronomy, Rocks & Minerals, MagLev, Dynamic Planet (E&V), Anatomy (Circulatory), Reach for the Stars, Meteorology (Climate), Remote Sensing, Disease Detectives, Metric Mastery, Pentathlon, Balloon Race, Tower Building

syo_astro
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 592
Joined: December 3rd, 2011, 9:45 pm
Division: Grad
State: NY
Contact:

Re: New York 2013

Postby syo_astro » July 30th, 2013, 5:49 pm

I guess I don't want to spend so much time with opinions and all of it being at Kellenberg (and just to say, after competing there I've had a lot of fun, thanks BroNi so much, still can't believe next year is my last wth...man, I even remember West Point being awesome...I'm upset it isn't there, but still really happy and hoping BroNi can handle it well). But if people have legitimate complaints, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be better to send them to the state coordinators or something? I know some try to read the forums, but if someone was that worried, then isn't that probably what should be done...not to say that we can't discuss it, just want to check (since I noticed JTMess's post).
B: Crave the Wave, Environmental Chemistry, Robo-Cross, Meteorology, Physical Science Lab, Solar System, DyPlan (E and V), Shock Value
C: Microbe Mission, DyPlan (Earth's Fresh Waters), Fermi Questions, GeoMaps, Gravity Vehicle, Scrambler, Rocks, Astronomy
Grad: Writing Tests/Supervising (NY/MI)

User avatar
gneissisnice
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 927
Joined: March 11th, 2008, 9:10 am
Division: Grad
State: NY
Location: Long Island

Re: New York 2013

Postby gneissisnice » July 30th, 2013, 5:51 pm

On behalf of all upstate and western teams, we would like to point out that kellenberg is practically the farthest point from central New York as could possibly be chosen. This poses a tremendous disadvantage to all teams not residing in New York City or Long Island. As one of the northernmost teams, we face a drive upwards of 8 hours to reach kellenberg and an estimated increase of 50% in travel and lodging costs. This will catastrophically deplete our resources, eliminating any opportunities to attend invitationals earlier in the season. In many tech events, northern and western teams will be at a major disadvantage in comparison to local teams due to packing and transportation. We feel that if the state competition could be moved to a more central location, if would present a more fair competition to teams from throughout the state.
Now you know how Long Islanders feel when the tournament is in Buffalo or Rochester.

Some teams always get the short end of the stick, but to be honest, Long Island has gotten it more times than other regions of the state.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats

User avatar
EastStroudsburg13
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 3032
Joined: January 17th, 2009, 7:32 am
Division: Grad
State: MD
Location: At work trying to be a real adult
Contact:

Re: New York 2013

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » July 30th, 2013, 6:07 pm

Just find someplace that's equally far from everyone! That's what we do with Juniata!

Seriously though, I'm sure the organizers do the best they can. While West Point is definitely closer to Long Island than central or western New York, it has so many teams that it probably deserves to host at least one tournament. However, it shouldn't become a yearly occurrence, because it's so far from the center of the state. Somewhere between West Point and Albany is probably the best location, based on my outsider's view.
East Stroudsburg South Class of 2012, Alumnus of JT Lambert, Drexel University Class of 2017

Helpful Links
Wiki
Wiki Pages that Need Work
FAQ and SciOly FAQ Wiki
Chat (See IRC Wiki for more info)
BBCode Wiki


If you have any questions for me, always feel free to shoot me a PM.

User avatar
YUSO
Member
Member
Posts: 81
Joined: April 30th, 2013, 8:20 am
Division: Grad
State: CT

Re: New York 2013

Postby YUSO » July 30th, 2013, 6:20 pm

The biggest issue with getting a venue is this: you are asking them to do a huge favor for you. "Huge" as in you are basically asking them "hey can I have a couple hundred kids come to your place and play with a bunch of science-y stuff that may or may not destroy your venue or themselves in the process and if that happens you may be responsible for it." We're all at their mercy on whether they want to host or not, so there's not much anyone can really do.
For final results from our our Division C Invitational Tournament in January 2014 at Yale University in New Haven, CT, click here: http://yuso.yale.edu/2014-results

andrewwski
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 953
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 7:36 pm
Division: Grad

Re: New York 2013

Postby andrewwski » July 30th, 2013, 6:39 pm

I guess I don't want to spend so much time with opinions and all of it being at Kellenberg (and just to say, after competing there I've had a lot of fun, thanks BroNi so much, still can't believe next year is my last wth...man, I even remember West Point being awesome...I'm upset it isn't there, but still really happy and hoping BroNi can handle it well). But if people have legitimate complaints, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be better to send them to the state coordinators or something? I know some try to read the forums, but if someone was that worried, then isn't that probably what should be done...not to say that we can't discuss it, just want to check (since I noticed JTMess's post).
I think, or at least hope, that it's more banter than actual complaints. I know the state organizers consider location among a multitude of other factors when trying to plan the tournament, and has been mentioned - finding a venue is difficult enough.

I've supervised events at tournaments both with extremely enthusiastic and wonderful hosts, and with hosts that seemingly didn't have a genuine interest. The difference is profound.

BroNiSciGuy
Member
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: March 16th, 2003, 1:59 pm
Division: C
State: NY
Location: Kellenberg Memorial HS

Re: New York 2013

Postby BroNiSciGuy » July 30th, 2013, 6:40 pm

Interesting discussion.

Let's see what this provokes....

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=20 ... 7,9.876709
(Probably a better way to embed that, but I couldn't find it.)

51 Div. C schools at 2013 NYS SO States, 28 within 130 mi radius of Kellenberg.

And yes, West Point and Monroe-Woodbury HS would be better centralized given this distribution of schools. But West Point is not ready, and.......

Listen to YUSO, he is closer to the truth then you guys know.
Coach, Kellenberg Memorial HS, NY
Regional Site Coordinator, Nassau West, NY
State Event Supervisor, NY
National Event Supervisor, USA

twototwenty
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 292
Joined: March 24th, 2011, 10:28 am
Division: Grad
State: NY

Re: New York 2013

Postby twototwenty » July 31st, 2013, 8:26 am

Who cares about the distance (and this is coming from a Rochester resident)....I'm just crying about it not being at West Point :( . All my favorite scioly memories come from being there as a freshman, and I had been really hoping to go back there as a senior...oh well.

On a side note, @ Shad, I noticed that you wrote something about being in Rochester to go to B Div states...are you going to school around here?


Return to “2013 Invitationals, Regionals, and States”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest