Wright Stuff B

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smartkid222
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby smartkid222 » April 22nd, 2009, 6:51 pm

i wind, by myself too, off the plane. I attach the rubber around the hook of a 1kg weight which lies on the floor, wind the rubber, then transfer to the plane.
You might also want to mention how you scream in pain every time you take the rubber off the weight. Maybe having another person take the rubber off would help in that situation ( or maybe at least have some one else in pain besides yourself).
HAHAHAHA. It's not really that painfull. I"m usually exagurating. But even if it is, it's nothing i can't handle :D
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Shad160
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby Shad160 » April 22nd, 2009, 6:55 pm

Whatever you say :roll:

Anyway, the rubber-on-the-weight thing is actually pretty effective, and I've seen smartkid do it a bunch of times. It gets annoying when the rubber snaps and you have to make sure the o-ring didn't fly away, though.
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GitItWright
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby GitItWright » April 22nd, 2009, 7:03 pm

Our larger prop doesn't do half as well. We don't have time to change the pitch to get it to climb, because the larger prop yields times of no more than 45 seconds, on a good flight.With the thinner rubber, it doesn't climb at all. Also, is it better to wind off the plane, or on the plane? Winding off seems more opportune, bearing the least risk of damaging you plane with a stray snapped rubber, however, we are having difficulty finding something to attach the other end of the rubber to. We used rounded jewelery pliers for a short time, but it was too difficult to transfer to the plane, and the rubber often snapped due to the tension around the pliers.
Here's assuming everyone now uses some kind of o-rings on each motor...
Make a winding fixture the holds your torque meter at on end and your winder in such a way as to lock it in place. A piece of hardwood that is 3/4" thick X 2" wide x 15"+ long should suffice as the "spine". It needs to be clamped or screwed down so that it doesn't move during operations. If there is no torque meter, a hook needs to be mounted horizontally preferably in a wood block that is screwed to the spine. The other end could be another hook attached in the same manner (a locked winder would be much better though). If you are wondering what would work as a portable bench, try one of those cheapo plastic saw horses that you can buy at Home Depot. Screw a piece of 2 x4 to the top edge of the sawhorse at least 5" longer over each end. Use pair of strong clamps to hold a piece 3/4" ply cut to the length of the 2 x 4 and about 10" wide. Screw or clamp on the winding fixture. Finish your creation with a removable post and clamp (spring clothes pin on a stick) to hold the airplane safe while winding and transferring wound rubber.

Alternates to the sawhorse would be an old card table or any portable alum table. An old friend mounted wheels to one of those cheap alum. portable tables. He would unfold one set of legs (shaped like a "U") as a handle, pile on his boxes and tools then roll everything in one trip into the flying site.

Good Luck
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chia
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby chia » April 22nd, 2009, 7:06 pm

Do you have a bigger or more pitched prop to try? If everything else is set, you could try a bigger prop if you have one.

If your main flight problem is flying too high, it should not be a problem where you can fly a very great height as I think you can at your states.

Also, with .083 rubber, 900 winds is very, very conservative. We usually wind to about 1200, and I know many teams go well above that. More winds and a bigger prop could up your times quite a bit.
i'm thinking of trimming one of those really big ikara propellers so it's just slightly larger than the small kind. i think that might slow it down a bit. like kjhsscioly said, we can't change the pitch.

it's not so much flying high as flying fast.

yeah, i know, but we just got the new rubber today. we wanted to be careful while we were testing the plane. tonight/tomorrow i can see how much we might wind it to.
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby jander14indoor » April 22nd, 2009, 7:08 pm

pretty much last minute for me, because we leave for states on friday:
we got our thinner rubber (.083) and it works MUCH better than our thicker rubber- the plane doesn't shoot up to the ceiling immediately any more. still, we think it may be rising a bit too fast. it might not be a problem at states...

in our <30 ft high multipurpose room (not counting the lights), our plane consistently flies 1:20 at around 900 winds (the rubber could go further, but we don't trust testing it on such high winds because it would hit the ceiling). we think it could get (in the same multipurpose room) something like 1:45 at least, if it weren't always hitting the lights/walls and dropping. on one of our best flights, it went about 1:25 altogether, rising about 5 feet per full turn (diameter of 7 or 8 meters), managed to fly over the lights, leveled off about a foot before it hit the ceiling, and then slowly came down with 100-ish turns left.

on 1300 winds, no obstructions, and a really high ceiling, is a plane like this capable of flying over 2:30? i think it could, if trimmed the day before at U of I.
You sir desperately need a torque meter. That rubber should do 1500 turns or more. And if you wind to that and back off enough you can stay out of the rafters and still have way more than 900 turns. But to do that consistently you need to wind to torque, not turns.

Someone asked about torque meter wire. Go to http://www.indoorduration.com/TorqueMeterCalc.asp for a utility which calculates torque vs degrees rotation vs wire thickness vs wire length. I found a meter with a range of 0 to 1 in-oz for 360 degrees to be about right for Wright Stuff. From the calculator thats around 6 inches for 0.015 wire torque element. 0 to 2 in-oz is better for motors on the thick side (say .100 inch wide or so) as they break around 1.2 to 1.5 in oz, but those motors are really a little large for SO if your plane is at 7.0 gm. About a 9 inch 0.020 wire is good for that range meter.

In the mean time, you can simulate by winding past say 1500 and backing off to 1200 and see if you stay out of the ceiling, but fly longer.

Or carefully repitch the prop slightly higher. Or depitch your larger prop a little.

Good luck.

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Livonia, MI

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby jacdad » April 22nd, 2009, 7:15 pm

Winding off the plane is much safer, even if you don't have a torque meter.

kjhsscioly: I was not aware that you had tried a bigger prop. We have 2 props that work much better than any others we have. The bigger one is only about 1/16" bigger all around the blade than the smaller one, but there is a large difference in how they power the planes. With the bigger one, we fly .085, and it only flies just up to our 22' ceiling structure. The other is again only slightly smaller, but flies too high with .080. Maybe you can trim your big prop until it is only slightly larger than the small one, but with almost the same shape and size. Or, just use the prop that has been working best and let is climb in that big space.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby jander14indoor » April 22nd, 2009, 7:22 pm

I found flying times from my regionals. Here are the top 10: http://www.gvsu.edu/mso-r12/index.cfm?i ... 9740619E9D
Oh my goodness, from a regional competition?

My regionals in Division C over the past few years probably only had three teams a year that could hit a minute. Last year there were 6 or 7. And although the plane dimensions were different (fixed, really), the motors were also 2.0 g (I've heard it's 1.5 g this year, correct?). And we're a very competitive region. Although seemingly not as much in building events.

Those would be times I'd expect to see at states!
Your experience is certainly typical, but that region is just not typical. And yes these planes with unlimited chords are certainly capable of three minutes on 1.5 gm of rubber.

That's a powerhouse region in Michigan, consistently sends teams to Nationals. One last year, two each of the years before that, I didn't bother looking back further. Just trying to compete with those teams brings the whole level up in that region.

Also one of the areas that consistently asks me to come run Wright Stuff clinics.

And if you want to know how they do it, frankly the community has made SO a fundamental part of how they teach science and SO has HUGE support. Sort of like Texas and football or Indiana and basketball. Lots of coaches, lots of expertise. By the time kids make those teams they are just flat prepared. Impressive.

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Greg Doe
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby Greg Doe » April 22nd, 2009, 8:59 pm

Winding rings have been covered before in this forum. I'm brand new to Indoor Flying, and until 5
months ago I had never heard of winding rings. Pull the siphon tube out of a hand lotion or hand soap
bottle. I found the larger tube to work best. Thin products like Windex have a small tube that is about 3/32. Thicker products use the larger tube, about 5/32. Slice off rings about 1/32 in. thick. Winding rings makes it real easy to fly solo. Jeff Anderson has covered his system before in this forum. If you want to try something even simpler I have used this procedure for hundreds of flights. I have a 3 in. C clamp that I clamp to a chair,table, the bleachers, or anything convenient. You don't have to "crush" the clamp so you shouldn't damage any surface. Cut a foot or so from a metal coat hanger and bend hooks in both ends. Make the opening of one end slightely smaller than the screw on the C clamp, so that it has to be forced over the screw, and than won't come off accidently. Attach one end of the rubber motor to the other end of the wire, attach the winder to the other end of the motor. Keep your airplane within reach. Two winding rings makes it a snap to transfer the motor from the "stooge" to the airplane.

One of my teams wound on the airplane. The other team wound off the airplane. It was their choice.

Regarding times, my kids took first and second at regionals in a 21 foot high ceiling with a winning time of 2:21. At state we didn't do quite as well finishing 3rd and 6th. The third place time was
2:46 in a 70 foot ceiling. I don't know what times took first and second, but I'm confident Bearden's
winning time was over 3 minutes. They have good coaching, and usually finish in the medals at the Nationals in the airplane events. I think we could have broken 3 minutes if we could have practiced in a higher ceiling site. Also the only prop we ever flew with was the normal blade Ikara prop. We never got to experiment with the wide blade prop, and only experimented with two different sizes of rubber. Oh, we never got technical enough for a torque meter either. Maybe next year?
Good luck to everyone who is still flying.
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby wlsguy » April 23rd, 2009, 4:48 am

Just for everyones info.

The top 2 flights at the Ohio State competition were 3:47 and 3:19. The ceiling height was 48 feet to the peak but these 2 flights were at the larger area where the ceiling is around 45 feet. A couple of other flight times were over 3 minutes and several teams had times around 2:45.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby blue cobra » April 23rd, 2009, 12:41 pm

How would one go about changing the pitch on an Ikara prop?
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