Wright Stuff Kit Interest

carneyf1d
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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by carneyf1d » May 19th, 2009, 7:36 pm

rolled motor sticks are light weight and definitely dont bend if theyre made out of .020-.025 wood. also, low density fat motor sticks work well. use like a 4.5-5# fat motor stick.
jacdad wrote:Sorry, but just had another thought. The motor stick and bending seem to be a big problem for many teams. If you guys figure out how to provide a light weight motor stick that doesn't bend, I think a lot of teams could use it. We have experimented with trussed sticks (mostly), just large wood that is low density, and tapered solid sticks, some with carved areas to lighten them. Just a thought. :)

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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by GitItWright » May 21st, 2009, 5:39 am

Let's remember that this thread concerns maufacturing a kit for WS.

A rolled motorstick in a production kit is not economical to manufacture. As for large, low density motorsticks, there is no guarantees. We purchased a number of motorsticks from Freedom Flight this year- all failed a typical torque load from a 1.5 gram motor ready for launch on a 7.1 gram airframe.

As an added thought, we did see success with placing a 1/64 plywood spacer between the prop bearing and the motorstick itself. Not much longer than the bearing will suffice. This spread the excessive torque load so that a temporary condition of downthrust was negated due to the bearing "dishing up" into the low density wood. The extra downthrust is minimized on launch until torque bleeds off. This may be a feature to include as part of a kit. The added bonus is that it also allows a smidge more space for the rubber motor along the bottom of the motorstick.

Our three most successful airplanes (over 3 minute flights each) used 6-8# wood with 10" motorsticks weighing in at 3.5 +/- grams each. The rest of the airplanes were built and propped to keep the airframes at 7.2 grams or less. This meant there was much time spent on design, in wood selection and construction. Round wingtips and round fins minimized glue weight throughout.

Good Luck
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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by calgoddard » May 21st, 2009, 1:48 pm

Wow - 3.5 grams for a solid motor stick for a 2009 WS plane, that's really heavy, and not necessary.

Rolled motor sticks are also not necessary for a very good WS plane built to minimum weight. A rolled motor stick is hard to make properly, and takes jigs, etc to fabricate correctly, esecially when it comes to inserting the wing post sockets through the rolled motor stick. The wing posts have to be centered, vertical and parallel. Here's another problem, once you install the wing post sockets through a rolled motor stick, significant changes in the CG of the airplane are very difficult to effectuate.

The last time my daughter built a rolled motor stick for a WS plane it took several hours of meticulous extra work. The finished plane was a beautiful piece of craftsmanship. However, her partner's plane consistently flew longer and it had a solid motor stick. She ended up flying the plane with the solid motor stick at the State finals. Her plane with the rolled motor stick became the back-up. It sure looked impressive, but it didn't fly quite as well.

In some classes of indoor free flight rubber powered aircraft, a rolled motor stick is absolutely necessary to be competitive, e.g. F1D. This is not true in Wright Stuff becasue of the relatively high minimum weight of the aircraft.

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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by kjhsscioly » May 21st, 2009, 4:26 pm

That does seem quite heavy for a motor stick. We used normal hobby store wood for one motor stick, and wood from an FAI kit in the other. Our motor stick and tail boom never gave us trouble with bending, yet only weighed about 2 grams combined. The lighter was 1.6. The measurement is stab inclusive. I have never rolled a motor stick , as regional and state were very close together and i did not have the time, but my planes have always come in under weight and needed extra clay.

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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by gh » May 21st, 2009, 7:06 pm

Having tried a few rolled stick WS models in '05 and '06, I have to say that the only real advantages to having rolled sticks/booms were that they can be much longer (so your stab incidence can be lower and the fin can be smaller/non-existent). The boom can also be plugged into the stick, but that's not really necessary unless you built it long in the first place.

At any rate, it really was unnecessary; with 7.0 grams to play with, you could really go nuts on a lot of the design if you have decent wood and you go easy on the glue.

As for the kit, I've always heard that the most difficult and time-consuming bit about making WS kits was the wood stripping and selection. That's probably why Ray Harlan quit making those kits: just think about the hundreds to thousands of 1/16″ square strips he had to make.
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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by GitItWright » May 21st, 2009, 7:07 pm

Folks, lets not lose focus on the fact that this thread has to do with producing a kit.

Rolled tube motorsticks are great but not with a kit. And, imagine being the manufacturer and a customer calls with a problem with the plane diving after every high torque launch. The safe solution since picking through thousands of dollars worth of wood to secure a small population of sticks is just not economical.

Good Luck

BTW, that 3.5 gram motorstick took second place at this year's Nats by only one second.
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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by computernerd4826 » May 23rd, 2009, 8:20 am

calgoddard wrote:Wow - 3.5 grams for a solid motor stick for a 2009 WS plane, that's really heavy, and not necessary.

Rolled motor sticks are also not necessary for a very good WS plane built to minimum weight. A rolled motor stick is hard to make properly, and takes jigs, etc to fabricate correctly, especially when it comes to inserting the wing post sockets through the rolled motor stick. The wing posts have to be centered, vertical and parallel. Here's another problem, once you install the wing post sockets through a rolled motor stick, significant changes in the CG of the airplane are very difficult to effectuate.

The last time my daughter built a rolled motor stick for a WS plane it took several hours of meticulous extra work. The finished plane was a beautiful piece of craftsmanship. However, her partner's plane consistently flew longer and it had a solid motor stick. She ended up flying the plane with the solid motor stick at the State finals. Her plane with the rolled motor stick became the back-up. It sure looked impressive, but it didn't fly quite as well.

In some classes of indoor free flight rubber powered aircraft, a rolled motor stick is absolutely necessary to be competitive, e.g. F1D. This is not true in Wright Stuff becasue of the relatively high minimum weight of the aircraft.
i agree, so on my plane instead of inserting the posts through the stick, i made a mount that allows me to slide the entire wing along the stick, while staying vertical. it is fully adjustable, and helpful. of course, it would definitely not be helpful in a kit, because it took a while to build and get perfect.
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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by carneyf1d » May 25th, 2009, 1:54 pm

I have a question... why must we make a kit? I know when i was in wright stuff I had relatively no money to afford one. I know it's great to make a profit off selling kits, but I've always learned thanks to the people who post their plans online. From Chris Goins's Double Trouble to Cezar Bank's Leading Edge, these are the people who have enabled me to learn about indoor building. Later on when the rules come out, I'll build a plane and post the dimensions, wood density, my rubber sizes, flight times, and all the works. Sure kids will have to go out and buy their own wood from a hobby store, but at least this will make them learn something.
I know last year I tried with this idea, and it didn't have success, because I built it a little more complicated than it should have been. Plus i never had any time to fly it and see what times it could do. This year I'll build to the ability of a newcomer, have simple motor stick, simple wing design, etc.I'll fly it a few times and see what its capable of. Once I hit 2:30 I'll post the design.
To all the students who have the money to afford a kit, and always are accustomed to building Dave Zeigler planes, and like to have all the parts in front of them for an easy build, then by all means buy his kits. They work fantastic. The winning team used his design. But for those who want to get more involved with indoor flight, talk to me, and I'll be happy to teach you everything i know.

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Re: Wright Stuff Kit Interest

Post by 49ers » May 26th, 2009, 4:50 pm

our plane got sat on at states and we still placed 9th overall in the event and in the state!!!
\I thought that was kinda scary that it was the same (meteorology was there too)
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