Helicopter Trial Event

carneyf1d
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Helicopter Trial Event

Postby carneyf1d » July 8th, 2009, 2:31 pm

since helicopter is gonna be a trial event next year, thought id post a new topic for it
anybody got some tips or tricks to get a well flying helicopter?

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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby fmtiger124 » July 8th, 2009, 2:32 pm

I thought it was a Pilot event.....at least thats what it is in New York State
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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby blue cobra » July 8th, 2009, 3:11 pm

I built a "helicopter" yesterday in about fifteen minutes out of some WS parts. COMPLETE FAILURE! Moral of the story: a single puller prop on the top of the MS isn't going to cut it ;)
I do look forward to building some 'copters over the summer and hopefully next season (if my coach lets me do both WS and this [can more than one pair from the same team enter a pilot event?]). Either way I have high hopes for this event and can't wait to see what is made of it! :D
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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby carneyf1d » July 8th, 2009, 6:44 pm

yea. strapping a prop on top of a motor stick wont fly too great lol. you need something to balance out the torque caused by the propeller. I'm gonna build something next week most likely, and ill post some picture/ construction notes from it.

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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby smartkid222 » July 9th, 2009, 2:27 am

fmtiger124 wrote:I thought it was a Pilot event.....at least thats what it is in New York State


it is a pilot event; just excuse carney he's not from NY so it's ok.

blue cobra wrote:I do look forward to building some 'copters over the summer and hopefully next season (if my coach lets me do both WS and this [can more than one pair from the same team enter a pilot event?]). Either way I have high hopes for this event and can't wait to see what is made of it! :D


I look forward to this event too :D
i really do not understand the question. for each team 2 people can enter the event. the people can be from the 15 team members but don't have to.
is this what you were saying?

carneyf1d wrote: I'm gonna build something next week most likely, and ill post some picture/ construction notes from it.


Nice.
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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby jander14indoor » July 9th, 2009, 3:44 am

Whatever NY is calling it, Helicopter was piloted by OH, MI and I think IN last year. In the SO scheme of things that makes it a national trial event for 2010.

But none of that makes any difference to the rules or competitors unless your state makes a distinction.

As to competitors, rules are like WS, a team of two from your overall team of 15 competes. Doesn't matter which other events they participate in. But at many tournaments (since the scores don't count to team standing), the organizers open Trial/Pilot events to alternates from outside the competitive 15 to allow wider participation. At MI last year we allowed as many two person teams as a school wanted to send.

As to designs, a single rotor can work, but you need something to slow the counter rotation of the motor stick. Look up Wright Bat for one idea.

I suspect, but don't know, that a counter-rotating twin rotor design will be optimum. Max diameter rotors. Build to minimum weight. Look up Jimmy Walker Ceiling Walker for a crude version of this concept.

I've heard many arguments on numbers of blades, but I'm not convinced by theory presented so far on what's best. Gut feel, more blade area is better than less. High aspect ratio (narrow) blades are better than low aspect ratio (wide) blades. So multiple narrow blades on each rotor seems attractive. But I've seen very nice flying designs with twin rotors, two blades each, and they are certainly easy to build.

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Have to take some pictures of ideas I've tried and post I guess.

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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby carneyf1d » July 9th, 2009, 12:12 pm

Although im not gonna try this on the first build. do you think this design has a higher potential than most others?
http://picasaweb.google.com/jeffrey.hoo ... 7835332994

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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby jander14indoor » July 9th, 2009, 7:21 pm

Such designs are certainly proven as to basic flight capability, they should be capable of exceeding a minute and a half under SO rules. But...

Ultimately...

I have NO idea. Helicopter is no where near as established an event in AMA indoor free flight as something like Wright Stuff. And that's kind of what makes it interesting.

All us 'experts' can do is point in directions we'd explore. We can get you started with proven, basic concepts that work. Maybe help on methods and practices. Help trouble shoot problems, etc. But I'm not sure we really know what will work best.

Example, most AMA helicopters are double rotor designs like the one in your link and fly in hover mode all the time. But I'm well aware that for full size helicopters hover is a very inefficient mode. Takes much less power to fly while moving horizontally, and that's true even if no horizontal flight surfaces. Is there a way to exploit this for SO size helicopters? Darned if I know, but I look forward to seeing what the students try.

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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby 49ers » July 10th, 2009, 5:57 pm

does it cost much to buy a kit for a helicopter?
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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby jander14indoor » July 11th, 2009, 4:09 am

Not a lot of kits out there, none to SO rules yet. But generally around $20 or less.

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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby 49ers » July 11th, 2009, 7:40 am

so there aren't any rules yet?
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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby blue cobra » July 11th, 2009, 8:44 am

These are the rules right now, http://www.newyorkscioly.org/SOPages/HE ... TION10.pdf but they could change a lot because these are not the official rules for 2010. Those rules will come out in September.
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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby smartkid222 » July 11th, 2009, 8:54 am

those ARE the official rules. there are NO changes to be made except through the NYS rules clarificaton page.

let me just remind you that this is a pilot even for NY, not a national event.
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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby GitItWright » July 11th, 2009, 9:52 am

smartkid222 wrote:those ARE the official rules. there are NO changes to be made except through the NYS rules clarificaton page.

let me just remind you that this is a pilot even for NY, not a national event.


We may confuse people with symantics and absolutes here. Helicopter has been accepted by the national SO organization to be raised in status from a Pilot event to a Trial. What's the difference? A Pilot event is one that is a new idea for SO that is published on the National website for states to consider for test competitions. A Trial event is one that has had its status raised from Pilot event through a stuctured process. Typically this process expects the event to be run in competitions and ultimately be scheduled in 2 state competitions and eventually scheduled in the national competition.

Last year, Helicopter was in three state competitions. This year it is sceduled in three possibly four state competitions (MI,OH,IN,IL) and at Nationals in IL. It has cleared the necessary requirements to be considered as a Trial event and, at the end of the 2010 season, will be eligible for acceptance as a National Competition Event.

Each state can determine how they approach trial events and how they identify these events. The bottomline is that at Nationals, Helicopter will be a National Trial Event whose next step is to become a National Competition Event.

Finally, no rules are officially finalized for competition until the rulebooks are published. This includes Trial events that have been scheduled for state and national competition. For the most part when rules are presented by their respective committees, the expectation is that there will be no changes. But... there have been changes applied in the past based on suggestions that arise from the Coaches Clinics in AZ.

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Re: Helicopter Trial Event

Postby 49ers » July 11th, 2009, 10:23 am

smartkid222 wrote:those ARE the official rules. there are NO changes to be made except through the NYS rules clarificaton page.

let me just remind you that this is a pilot even for NY, not a national event.


that doesn't make any sense to have official rules and the trial event if its only for NY state SO!!
shouldn't it be for all states?
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