Elevated Bridge B/C

[rjm]

At Nationals, Div. B, 23rd place was 1145, 24th place was 999.

For Div. C, 15th place was 1035, 16th place was 897.

Bob Monetza
Grand Haven, MI

[jazzy009]

897.

Haha yes! 4 points more than we thought...!

[croman74]

At Nationals, Div. B, 23rd place was 1145, 24th place was 999.

For Div. C, 15th place was 1035, 16th place was 897.

Bob Monetza
Grand Haven, MI

Wow, quite a few over 1000 for Div. B.

[fullofit]

I thought that EB (as well as tower and boomilever in the past) continues to be one of the best run and designed SO building events. I don't know of any issues that anyone had with the way it was run at Nationals or the rules for the event. It's nice that the rules are constantly changed so that nobody can simply bring the same structure back year after year (although that would sure save a few hundred hours of work for the top few teams). The humidity change from where many of the bridges were designed was certain to have been an issue for teams that didn't take it into account, but weather conditions at competition are always an issue. I suppose that at some colleges where Nationals is run the climate in the room is a bit better controlled than it was at the gym, but the teams were able to leave the bridge in it's container until just before loading.

I am begining to be somewhat suspicious that some teams might be using some prohibited materials in their structures. I heard from a coach who has been doing SO for over 20 years, that in the early days of SO the structures were broken apart after competition to check for prohibited materials, and I think that might be a good idea to do that again. He said there were complaints that teams had put so much time into the bridge (boomilever or tower) that it just wasn't right to break it if it didn't break in competition, but that was back in the days where the structure was second tiered if it broke before carrying the entire load. Nowadays virtually every highly competitive structure should break anyway (unless they are building with prohibited materials and they don't want to get caught), so checking for prohibited materials shouldn't be too onerous of a requirement.

I have spoken to the kid who had the most efficient bridge two years in a row (05, 06), so he knows a bit about building, and he felt that some of the towers that were at Nationals and States last year, were impossibly light and thin, if built from only balsa. On the other hand his bridges beat the competition by a huge margin and it is likely that someone may have thought that he may have been using prohibited materials, but his bridges both broke so it would have been fairly obvious if he had used some boron or carbon, or spectra, etc.. I just think that if teams know that there is no way they will get caught, that the temptation for using prohibited materials is just too great to pass up. Look at drug use in the olympics, baseball, etc. Until there was testing nobody knew that drugs were being used, but once they began testing it turned out to be rampant in the highly competitive teams.

[smartkid222]

I am begining to be somewhat suspicious that some teams might be using some prohibited materials in their structures. I heard from a coach who has been doing SO for over 20 years, that in the early days of SO the structures were broken apart after competition to check for prohibited materials, and I think that might be a good idea to do that again. He said there were complaints that teams had put so much time into the bridge (boomilever or tower) that it just wasn't right to break it if it didn't break in competition, but that was back in the days where the structure was second tiered if it broke before carrying the entire load. Nowadays virtually every highly competitive structure should break anyway (unless they are building with prohibited materials and they don't want to get caught), so checking for prohibited materials shouldn't be too onerous of a requirement.

I have spoken to the kid who had the most efficient bridge two years in a row (05, 06), so he knows a bit about building, and he felt that some of the towers that were at Nationals and States last year, were impossibly light and thin, if built from only balsa. On the other hand his bridges beat the competition by a huge margin and it is likely that someone may have thought that he may have been using prohibited materials, but his bridges both broke so it would have been fairly obvious if he had used some boron or carbon, or spectra, etc.. I just think that if teams know that there is no way they will get caught, that the temptation for using prohibited materials is just too great to pass up. Look at drug use in the olympics, baseball, etc. Until there was testing nobody knew that drugs were being used, but once they began testing it turned out to be rampant in the highly competitive teams.

I have never even thought of this before. I would never had suspected such thing. The only time i had heard of carbon/boron enforcements are in the formation of Motorsticks for f1d's which need to sustain the force of of the rubber motor (and this is legal).

I understand some of the complaints; I would like to keep my 'medal winning bridge' intact, but if it would be for the purpose of checking for violations, i would adhere to the policy, especially at high-level competitions.

For NY states last year, most of the extrememly light bridges did break if you look at the results so according to you it would have been 'obvious'. I don't know what obvious entails. I dont' really know what boron or carbon looks like. I imagine it would look like metal that would be inside the balsa? i don't really know.
For nats only 3 teams got a better efficency than the number 1 NY bridge

i still find it kind of hard to belive that this kind of thing happens but thanks for brining it to attention. Are you a coach/ ES/ or participant?

[sewforlife]

I would be disappointed if they changed it to nonelevated bridge. There's still so many things to explore with elevated.

that's what I think. but I have discussed with our coaches, and they won't take back the rules they gave us, and want us to slave away at making a three-point loadng block bridge.

[nejanimb]

I'm fairly certain no one uses prohibited materials. If they do, it's because they were stupid and didn't read the rules (and thus, they get DQd) - not because they were trying to gain an unfair advantage. Has there ever been a case of someone at the highest level of competition actually doing such a thing? I find it very hard to believe.

For C division, there were at 2 bridges in the top 7 that held the full weight. I don't know how many total in the top 10, but even the second place bridge held full weight. I am sure that no one who medalled this year did it by cheating in any way, shape or form.

In reply to what smartkid222 said - only 3 bridges beat the top PA score, only 2 bridges beat the top Indiana score, only 4 the top DE score, only 2 the top MI score... If olympiad was a bridge competition, and every state could send the best bridge or two, the results at the top for this event would look a bit different. I think the gold medal score was in fact the top score in the country, as was the silver medal score the second best, but I know that some of the other top scores could have gotten into the bronze medal position. Of course, this is true with most events - the team that goes to nationals from a given state didn't (well, probably didn't) win every event at their state tournament, and so often other events could have done well from the state. But... that's olympiad. =).

And sewforlife... that stinks. Do you have to do as they say? . Stick to EBs... Though, really, any kind of balsa building - particularly bridge building - will give you good practice that you'll be able to apply to the actual event once the proper rules come out.

[smartkid222]

I'm fairly certain no one uses prohibited materials. If they do, it's because they were stupid and didn't read the rules (and thus, they get DQd) - not because they were trying to gain an unfair advantage. Has there ever been a case of someone at the highest level of competition actually doing such a thing? I find it very hard to believe.

I don't think it happens either. Carbon/boron i belived is extremely expensive and i don't think anyone would violate the spirit of the competition like that.

In reply to what smartkid222 said - only 3 bridges beat the top PA score, only 2 bridges beat the top Indiana score, only 4 the top DE score, only 2 the top MI score... If olympiad was a bridge competition, and every state could send the best bridge or two, the results at the top for this event would look a bit different. I think the gold medal score was in fact the top score in the country, as was the silver medal score the second best, but I know that some of the other top scores could have gotten into the bronze medal position. Of course, this is true with most events - the team that goes to nationals from a given state didn't (well, probably didn't) win every event at their state tournament, and so often other events could have done well from the state. But... that's olympiad. =).

I was just using that to prove a point. Since the top NY towers broke, it did not contian illegal materials, because it would have been 'obvious' to spot. Since the best NY tower would have came in #3 at nats, it doesn't mean to obtain a very high score, illegal materials must be used.

[robotman]

On the other hand his bridges beat the competition by a huge margin and it is likely that someone may have thought that he may have been using prohibited materials, but his bridges both broke so it would have been fairly obvious if he had used some boron or carbon, or spectra, etc..

i have a few issue with this i have never done bridges but i have done towers there are two things wrong with ths idea
1. where do you get carbon fiber or what ever?
2. how do you hide it in a bridge/tower and have it effective without it looking like it had prohibited materials?

[Aia]

I don't think it's feasible to cheat in this event. At any rate, it certainly wouldn't be worth the time or effort- in the time it would take you to figure out the boron/carbon/whatever fullofit suggested, you could just build and test a few more bridges.

Really, in the past 3 years I've done balsa events with Scioly, I haven't seen any structures that purposely tried to violate the rules in a way that fullofit suggested. I believe the most efficient structures are the product of hard work and considerable designing. While the 2000+ scores are certainly awe-inspiring, they aren't impossible.