Mission Possible C

iwonder
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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby iwonder » September 15th, 2013, 7:22 pm

*grumbles about clarifications... etc, etc

I looked through the rules and couldn't find anything about it, I assume there'll be an official answer on it soon. I'd assume the ES does, but I'm just a competitor in Texas, I've got no bearing on what an ES does. Personally, even if I was pretty sure the ES would bring it, I'd bring my own unless there's official word on it. Better safe than sorry.
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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby twototwenty » September 16th, 2013, 5:22 am

I know this might sound odd, but what do you all think actually defines an electrical component? Or, specifically, a wire? What I am wondering about it this: would a bimetallic stip be legal? It is just a special piece of metal, which might be used as wire, but would it count as a separate type of electrical component?

Similar to bimetallic strips are thermocouples, which are simply a type of "special" wire. Or Seebeck generators: metal plates and wire. Also, somebody could make a viable resistor by wrapping normal wire (allowed) around a piece of wood (also allowed)...at which point does that cross the line to becoming a new type of electrical component (not allowed)?

I will probably submit a question about this, but I'm interested in hearing what you all have to say first.

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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby iwonder » September 16th, 2013, 5:37 am

I know this might sound odd, but what do you all think actually defines an electrical component? Or, specifically, a wire? What I am wondering about it this: would a bimetallic stip be legal? It is just a special piece of metal, which might be used as wire, but would it count as a separate type of electrical component?

Similar to bimetallic strips are thermocouples, which are simply a type of "special" wire. Or Seebeck generators: metal plates and wire. Also, somebody could make a viable resistor by wrapping normal wire (allowed) around a piece of wood (also allowed)...at which point does that cross the line to becoming a new type of electrical component (not allowed)?

I will probably submit a question about this, but I'm interested in hearing what you all have to say first.
Well here's my question to you... where did that rule mention electrical component? The only place I see it is after the list of materials, so someone could possibly interpret it as not allowing wood, plastic, string, anything, when it's obviously meant to limit electrical components, that's my concern going to contest at least. I've seen some really strange rule readings..

My thoughts are that your potentiometer that's homemade wouldn't violate any rule because you used allowed materials, just in a way that if you bought them off the shelf it's not allowed. Not sure on the others
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twototwenty
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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby twototwenty » September 16th, 2013, 5:55 am

Well here's my question to you... where did that rule mention electrical component?
the second sentence of that rule says no computers, ICs, or other electrical components....so my question boils down to: does the electrical use of certain metals count as using "other electrical components".

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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby chalker » September 16th, 2013, 6:30 am

So, the start task, it has one dropping a bunch of stuff into your device. Who provides this stuff?

Generally unless we explicitly say in the rules the event supervisor provides something, you as the competitor has to provide it. Of course this isn't the place for official clarifications as usual....

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twototwenty
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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby twototwenty » September 16th, 2013, 8:23 am

So, the start task, it has one dropping a bunch of stuff into your device. Who provides this stuff?

Generally unless we explicitly say in the rules the event supervisor provides something, you as the competitor has to provide it. Of course this isn't the place for official clarifications as usual....
Also it said that the stuff "must not be modified", which implies that you would have the opportunity to modify it, which implies that it is you providing it, not the supervisor.

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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby JimY » September 20th, 2013, 6:15 am

I'm wondering whether or not putting a current through a nichrome wire and heating it up will count as thermal, infrared EMS, or both. If only one of the two, then I don't think it will be possible to get all 300 points for energy transfers (or I'm REALLY struggling with it at least). For example, if the wire counts only as infrared EMS and not thermal, what means is there to go from thermal to EM or thermal to electrical? Then if it counts only as thermal, then how do you go from EMS to either mechanical or thermal (and perhaps even chemical)? If the rule writers thought about this, it doesn't come out in the rules very well, so I for one will ask for a clarification.

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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby olympiaddict » September 20th, 2013, 7:03 am

I'm not sure why it couldn't count for thermal, but I'm also not sure why that has a bearing on if it's possible, could you explain a little more.
Some transfers do seem impossible though, as someone said Mechanical to EMS (i know I said I had an idea before, but I realized my idea was mech-therm-ems)

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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby Flavorflav » September 20th, 2013, 9:07 am

I'm wondering whether or not putting a current through a nichrome wire and heating it up will count as thermal, infrared EMS, or both. If only one of the two, then I don't think it will be possible to get all 300 points for energy transfers (or I'm REALLY struggling with it at least). For example, if the wire counts only as infrared EMS and not thermal, what means is there to go from thermal to EM or thermal to electrical? Then if it counts only as thermal, then how do you go from EMS to either mechanical or thermal (and perhaps even chemical)? If the rule writers thought about this, it doesn't come out in the rules very well, so I for one will ask for a clarification.
Personally, I would count it as electric to thermal, but I'd let you score with it as EMS if the nichrome was not actually touching the object it was heating.

I can imagine EMS to electric and EMS to thermal, but I have no idea how one might achieve any other transfers from EMS - EMS to mechanical seems like it would always have to go through thermal, and I just don't see EMS to chemical at all.

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Re: Mission Possible C

Postby JimY » September 20th, 2013, 5:35 pm

I'm wondering whether or not putting a current through a nichrome wire and heating it up will count as thermal, infrared EMS, or both. If only one of the two, then I don't think it will be possible to get all 300 points for energy transfers (or I'm REALLY struggling with it at least). For example, if the wire counts only as infrared EMS and not thermal, what means is there to go from thermal to EM or thermal to electrical? Then if it counts only as thermal, then how do you go from EMS to either mechanical or thermal (and perhaps even chemical)? If the rule writers thought about this, it doesn't come out in the rules very well, so I for one will ask for a clarification.
Personally, I would count it as electric to thermal, but I'd let you score with it as EMS if the nichrome was not actually touching the object it was heating.

I can imagine EMS to electric and EMS to thermal, but I have no idea how one might achieve any other transfers from EMS - EMS to mechanical seems like it would always have to go through thermal, and I just don't see EMS to chemical at all.
Touching nichrome = thermal and non-touching nichrome = infrared EMS would be a good distinction. I submitted the question today, so hopefully we'll hear about it soon.


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