Pennsylvania 2014

AlphaTauri
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby AlphaTauri » May 5th, 2014, 6:58 pm

Anyone else very skeptical of the Experimental Design Scores-- considering Harriton, Rustin, and Stoga all scored over 25th? Why are the bungee results wrong? What happened to Scrambler? Very upset with the lack of clarity and mistakes in event scoring this year. It makes all of us lose faith in the spirit of Science Olympiad.
They are fixing it... mistakes happen. My guess is that most likely something went wrong while entering things into the spreadsheet, and things will probably change when they put the final, corrected scoresheet up.

Edit: As for ExpDes, I heard from our ExpDes people that the proctor apparently got fed up with teams doing pendulums (after telling them to make a physics experiment involving gravity...) and banned pendulums about ten minutes into their block, so that might be part of the reason.
Did he announce to all teams after that block that pendulums were banned? That just seems odd that a proctor would outright ban doing a type of experiment.
I have no idea. All I know is what I heard from our ExpDes people. And well, as for pendulums and ExpDes... pendulums are often a go-to experiment because they're easy to construct and the experimental relationships are already known from simple physics. Thus many teams do them when possible, so they can concentrate on the write-up and analysis. Proctors don't like to read 36 labs about pendulums. (Though to me, that's a problem inherent in the event because of the way the grading works...)
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EastStroudsburg13
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » May 5th, 2014, 6:59 pm

There is a degree to which competitions are not going to be perfect. Always has been the case in Science Olympiad, always has been. For some reason, this year there seem to have been more appeals or questions regarding the integrity of the competition. This, to me, is a real shame, because nobody gets paid to spend their time working at states; like ichalem said, it is all volunteer work. If we want to make tournaments run without any of these minor glitches, that have always happened but are usually accepted as part of the game, everyone needs to pitch in, not just a couple of teams (thankfully Penncrest is one of the teams that does so).

It is easy to get caught up in the competitive nature of Science Olympiad. Sometimes we need to take a step back and look at what it really is: a way to explore science, and to celebrate the exploration of science with others. We can quibble over whether a team deserved a higher or lower place, but this is why we have 23 events. In the end, hopefully, everything evens out and the teams that advance are the teams that performed the best. In the meantime, however, it does nobody any good to point fingers and say that this team cheated, or that team didn't run their event right. In the grand scheme of things, what is more important: that the event is run perfectly and you absolutely sure nothing went wrong, or that you were able to delve into interesting aspects of science and engineering that, without Science Olympiad, you otherwise may not have experienced?

EDIT: Also, atomicbob, ichaelm went to Harriton. Why would he have Penncrest bias?
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Canadianmadman
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby Canadianmadman » May 5th, 2014, 7:01 pm

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Last edited by Canadianmadman on May 5th, 2014, 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby JCicc » May 5th, 2014, 7:06 pm

This is for Canadianmadman. What controversy surrounds Penncrest? The event in question here was WON, fair and square, by Penncrest, for which the team got 23 points in the official score sheet. How is it "sketchy" that the proper scores were updated, resulting in a change of placement? Penncrest was not involved in the administration of this event, nor in the change of scoring.

What "multiple problems" are you speaking of? Name one. There were no problems with any events Penncrest was involved in this year, or last year, or the year before. Penncrest was not involved in experimental design, bungee drop, or scrambler.

What you are suggesting, young sir, is that the integrity of Penncrest's team coaches and volunteer event supervisors is in question. I object. "Many teams just want the honest truth." The honest truth here is that Penncrest lost the opportunity to receive a first place trophy because the score sheet was initially inaccurate. Fixing the score sheet is "sketchy"? NOT fixing it would be sketchy.

Don't you dare question my integrity ever again. It's offensive and insulting.

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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby StogaSciOly » May 5th, 2014, 7:08 pm

The sheer belief in the Science Olympiad organization in Pennsylvania is humbling. We've all put in so much effort this year. Hopefully everyone has been honest and fair-- true to the spirit of the organization. We will find out what will happen tomorrow-- hopefully, next year.. there will be no questions to this extent. Whatever happens-- let's make sure PA can have two teams in the top 10 at the National Tournament. We deserve it!!

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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby AlphaTauri » May 5th, 2014, 7:11 pm

Perhaps we should just all calm ourselves (as a mod, I would highly suggest you heed that advice) and not jump to any conclusions before the final scores come out?

It's pointless trying to argue anything at this point because the State committee has recognized their errors and is working hard on fixing them. As JCicc said, it's much better of them to fix it than to leave it be.
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Jdogg
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby Jdogg » May 5th, 2014, 7:13 pm

Hey, do you happen to know why Scrambler wasn't included in the results? We're all super confused. Thanks!!
It was turned in late, due to a few teams having to compete after 3. Hopefully it will be put into the scoresheet, tmr. Other than that, I would have no clue why Scrambler would not be included in the results.
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ReBobville
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby ReBobville » May 5th, 2014, 7:13 pm

I would like to hope there was a miscalculation. But what has happened is pretty big. From what I hear, many of the schools who were in the Top 5/6 at states for the C Division are very disappointed in what is going on. Many coaches have been trying to contact the State admins trying to get clarification on what is going on. There is supposed to be a hotline or something that is open 24hrs a day or something after the results are released and that hotline has had no responses for many teams. I know Bayard Rustin is very confused and disappointed in how this is being handled, and I am sure that Conestoga, Harriton, and Strath Haven all have a problem with it. Not necessarily because they might move up a place, but because there have been problems like this before in PA SciOly and nothing ever gets fixed and teams and coaches must suffer.

As mean as this is to say, the controversy always seems to surround Penncrest. Why? I'm not really sure, but it seems to me from what I head from multiple participants is that there consistently have been problems with how Penncrest is involved with the state competition. Many teams just want the honest truth. If you win fair and square, good for you. Every team can accept defeat when it is fair; the team recognizes that they were out-done. However, where there are multiple problems, many of which surrounding Penncrest influenced events (I say influenced because it seems like Penncrest sort of took over some of the events that they volunteered to help other schools with, again from what I have been hearing), along with the fact that Penncrest suddenly moved up to 1st in the rankings just seems sketchy.

People have already gotten their medals and their places, yet on the results sheet, these are all changed and therefore Penncrest is moved up? Something is going on in PA SciOly and it seems to get worse every couple of years. In my opinion, something needs to happen sometime because teams are getting fed-up with the constant problems year-after-year with nothing changing and teams consistently having to put in tons of effort for no change, just because they want the truth.

I myself can't even tell if my event scores are correct. I accepted them when they came out, but with all this controversy, who is to say I can even trust my place and scores? The tests were not even collected by the State Supervisor in case there was a problem like this. It just seems all too fishy. Hopefully the truth will come out and the drama will subside until next year.


As a team member for Strath Haven (C) I would like to say that while we are confused, we are in no way disappointed with the current situation. At this point, we have contacted the state director with our questions about the scores, and are confident that they will be resolved in a timely manner. Also, we do not think that any team is or will be involved in any type of cheating. It is important to remember as EastStroudsberg said that the people running this competition are VOLUNTEERS! We have been very lucky to have a very smoothly run state competition the past few years, and it should come as no surprise to us that once in a while, mistakes are made. What is important now is that we all take a breather, and let the state do its job to clear up any confusion about the scores.
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Canadianmadman
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby Canadianmadman » May 5th, 2014, 7:36 pm

I would like to apologize based on what I have been reading. I obviously was making assumptions that were terribly incorrect and inconsiderate. I agree that SciOly should mainly be an environment with fun competition while largely encouraging the growth of knowledge and different areas of science for students. I have been very hostile obviously in many ways, and have naive to the situation. I again was to apologize and thank you for rebuttalling against me so that I can better understand what might be going on.

Rumors obviously as we know never end well, and I have been a prime example. I will delete my previous harsh posts that I can now openly say were uncalled for and so sudden after I had heard other things about the situation.

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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby pinkyfinger » May 6th, 2014, 6:49 am

The corrected scores are now up.

http://www.juniata.edu/projects/scioly/


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