Pennsylvania 2014

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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby AlphaTauri » May 5th, 2014, 7:11 pm

Perhaps we should just all calm ourselves (as a mod, I would highly suggest you heed that advice) and not jump to any conclusions before the final scores come out?

It's pointless trying to argue anything at this point because the State committee has recognized their errors and is working hard on fixing them. As JCicc said, it's much better of them to fix it than to leave it be.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby Jdogg » May 5th, 2014, 7:13 pm

Hey, do you happen to know why Scrambler wasn't included in the results? We're all super confused. Thanks!!
It was turned in late, due to a few teams having to compete after 3. Hopefully it will be put into the scoresheet, tmr. Other than that, I would have no clue why Scrambler would not be included in the results.
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ReBobville
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby ReBobville » May 5th, 2014, 7:13 pm

I would like to hope there was a miscalculation. But what has happened is pretty big. From what I hear, many of the schools who were in the Top 5/6 at states for the C Division are very disappointed in what is going on. Many coaches have been trying to contact the State admins trying to get clarification on what is going on. There is supposed to be a hotline or something that is open 24hrs a day or something after the results are released and that hotline has had no responses for many teams. I know Bayard Rustin is very confused and disappointed in how this is being handled, and I am sure that Conestoga, Harriton, and Strath Haven all have a problem with it. Not necessarily because they might move up a place, but because there have been problems like this before in PA SciOly and nothing ever gets fixed and teams and coaches must suffer.

As mean as this is to say, the controversy always seems to surround Penncrest. Why? I'm not really sure, but it seems to me from what I head from multiple participants is that there consistently have been problems with how Penncrest is involved with the state competition. Many teams just want the honest truth. If you win fair and square, good for you. Every team can accept defeat when it is fair; the team recognizes that they were out-done. However, where there are multiple problems, many of which surrounding Penncrest influenced events (I say influenced because it seems like Penncrest sort of took over some of the events that they volunteered to help other schools with, again from what I have been hearing), along with the fact that Penncrest suddenly moved up to 1st in the rankings just seems sketchy.

People have already gotten their medals and their places, yet on the results sheet, these are all changed and therefore Penncrest is moved up? Something is going on in PA SciOly and it seems to get worse every couple of years. In my opinion, something needs to happen sometime because teams are getting fed-up with the constant problems year-after-year with nothing changing and teams consistently having to put in tons of effort for no change, just because they want the truth.

I myself can't even tell if my event scores are correct. I accepted them when they came out, but with all this controversy, who is to say I can even trust my place and scores? The tests were not even collected by the State Supervisor in case there was a problem like this. It just seems all too fishy. Hopefully the truth will come out and the drama will subside until next year.


As a team member for Strath Haven (C) I would like to say that while we are confused, we are in no way disappointed with the current situation. At this point, we have contacted the state director with our questions about the scores, and are confident that they will be resolved in a timely manner. Also, we do not think that any team is or will be involved in any type of cheating. It is important to remember as EastStroudsberg said that the people running this competition are VOLUNTEERS! We have been very lucky to have a very smoothly run state competition the past few years, and it should come as no surprise to us that once in a while, mistakes are made. What is important now is that we all take a breather, and let the state do its job to clear up any confusion about the scores.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby Canadianmadman » May 5th, 2014, 7:36 pm

I would like to apologize based on what I have been reading. I obviously was making assumptions that were terribly incorrect and inconsiderate. I agree that SciOly should mainly be an environment with fun competition while largely encouraging the growth of knowledge and different areas of science for students. I have been very hostile obviously in many ways, and have naive to the situation. I again was to apologize and thank you for rebuttalling against me so that I can better understand what might be going on.

Rumors obviously as we know never end well, and I have been a prime example. I will delete my previous harsh posts that I can now openly say were uncalled for and so sudden after I had heard other things about the situation.

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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby pinkyfinger » May 6th, 2014, 6:49 am

The corrected scores are now up.

http://www.juniata.edu/projects/scioly/

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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby earthbot25 » May 6th, 2014, 6:53 am

Congratulations to Penncrest!
Last edited by earthbot25 on May 6th, 2014, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby solakmagic » May 6th, 2014, 7:11 am

Now that the dust has settled, congratulation to all of the teams for a great competition--regardless of how it all fluxed out, everyone should be proud of their performance!
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby I+-[+]-+I » May 6th, 2014, 12:08 pm

The corrected scores are now up.

http://www.juniata.edu/projects/scioly/
Thanks :)
I remember being very surprised about the new results. I am so happy because our team actually went up two spots in the ranking.
Question: Do you know which places get physical prizes (like trophys and stuff).

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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby Toms_42 » May 6th, 2014, 12:09 pm

The corrected scores are now up.

http://www.juniata.edu/projects/scioly/
Thanks :)
I remember being very surprised about the new results. I am so happy because our team actually went up two spots in the ranking.
Question: Do you know which places get physical prizes (like trophys and stuff).
5+ for individual prizes.
I believe top 8 teams got trophies.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby Atomicbob11 » May 6th, 2014, 12:10 pm

With the new results, Congrats to Penncrest for coming out on top. Definitely a little disappointing for Harriton nonetheless, however both teams still are going to Nationals. Make PA proud!
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby AlphaTauri » May 6th, 2014, 12:21 pm

Wow, congrats to Penncrest on their first State title! (but oh nooo, the 16 year streak is dead :[ )

Represent us well at Nationals with Harriton!

Looking at the scores, seems like Harriton (and several other good teams) got screwed by ExpDes... which was apparently really weird anyway. I have a feeling that when I run the numbers, that event's going to stick out (I run a chi-square for association/independence on the event rankings versus the team's final rank... probably not the most statistically correct method, but it seemed like an impartial and fairly easy stat test to run.)

EDIT: Turns out in addition to the chi-square association/indepedence test, I also run a r^2 correlation, for some reason that I'm sure I knew when I did stats, but completely escapes me now. Anyway, results indicate ExpDes was indeed the "worst" overall predictor of a team's final placing by a pretty good margin, while DynPlan was the "best" (followed pretty closely by Astro).
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby solakmagic » May 6th, 2014, 1:54 pm

Wow, congrats to Penncrest on their first State title! (but oh nooo, the 16 year streak is dead :[ )

Represent us well at Nationals with Harriton!

Looking at the scores, seems like Harriton (and several other good teams) got screwed by ExpDes... which was apparently really weird anyway. I have a feeling that when I run the numbers, that event's going to stick out (I run a chi-square for association/independence on the event rankings versus the team's final rank... probably not the most statistically correct method, but it seemed like an impartial and fairly easy stat test to run.)

EDIT: Turns out in addition to the chi-square association/indepedence test, I also run a r^2 correlation, for some reason that I'm sure I knew when I did stats, but completely escapes me now. Anyway, results indicate ExpDes was indeed the "worst" overall predictor of a team's final placing by a pretty good margin, while DynPlan was the "best" (followed pretty closely by Astro).
The ED absolutely seemed to throw things off for a lot of teams. Myself and my two teammates on the event left feeling very confident in our performance and we were surprised with our thirteenth place finish. Understandably, the competition is quite rigorous, and thirteenth isn't at all a bad score compared to some of the other surprises. We will be contacting the proctor in hopes of gaining information on what we did wrong--hopefully that will shed some light on the situation.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby earthbot25 » May 6th, 2014, 1:56 pm

Wow, congrats to Penncrest on their first State title! (but oh nooo, the 16 year streak is dead :[ )

Represent us well at Nationals with Harriton!

Looking at the scores, seems like Harriton (and several other good teams) got screwed by ExpDes... which was apparently really weird anyway. I have a feeling that when I run the numbers, that event's going to stick out (I run a chi-square for association/independence on the event rankings versus the team's final rank... probably not the most statistically correct method, but it seemed like an impartial and fairly easy stat test to run.)

EDIT: Turns out in addition to the chi-square association/indepedence test, I also run a r^2 correlation, for some reason that I'm sure I knew when I did stats, but completely escapes me now. Anyway, results indicate ExpDes was indeed the "worst" overall predictor of a team's final placing by a pretty good margin, while DynPlan was the "best" (followed pretty closely by Astro).
The ED absolutely seemed to throw things off for a lot of teams. Myself and my two teammates on the event left feeling very confident in our performance and we were surprised with our thirteenth place finish. Understandably, the competition is quite rigorous, and thirteenth isn't at all a bad score compared to some of the other surprises. We will be contacting the proctor in hopes of gaining information on what we did wrong--hopefully that will shed some light on the situation.
unfortunately it seems like we shouldn't keep our hopes up for detailed information
Last edited by earthbot25 on May 6th, 2014, 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » May 6th, 2014, 4:10 pm

The corrected scores are now up.

http://www.juniata.edu/projects/scioly/
Thanks :)
I remember being very surprised about the new results. I am so happy because our team actually went up two spots in the ranking.
Question: Do you know which places get physical prizes (like trophys and stuff).
5+ for individual prizes.
I believe top 8 teams got trophies.
Top 6 get trophies.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2014

Postby scramblingman » May 6th, 2014, 5:09 pm

Wow, congrats to Penncrest on their first State title! (but oh nooo, the 16 year streak is dead :[ )

Represent us well at Nationals with Harriton!

Looking at the scores, seems like Harriton (and several other good teams) got screwed by ExpDes... which was apparently really weird anyway. I have a feeling that when I run the numbers, that event's going to stick out (I run a chi-square for association/independence on the event rankings versus the team's final rank... probably not the most statistically correct method, but it seemed like an impartial and fairly easy stat test to run.)

EDIT: Turns out in addition to the chi-square association/indepedence test, I also run a r^2 correlation, for some reason that I'm sure I knew when I did stats, but completely escapes me now. Anyway, results indicate ExpDes was indeed the "worst" overall predictor of a team's final placing by a pretty good margin, while DynPlan was the "best" (followed pretty closely by Astro).
The ED absolutely seemed to throw things off for a lot of teams. Myself and my two teammates on the event left feeling very confident in our performance and we were surprised with our thirteenth place finish. Understandably, the competition is quite rigorous, and thirteenth isn't at all a bad score compared to some of the other surprises. We will be contacting the proctor in hopes of gaining information on what we did wrong--hopefully that will shed some light on the situation.
my team contacted the proctor, and we didn't particularly learn anything other than that it was more subjectively graded than usual. don't keep your hopes up for detailed information, and like you, my group was way more confident than the placing we received in that event.
Personally I'm very disappointed for the way experimental design turned out. My group and I practiced very hard for this event, as I'm sure the teams of many other schools did. The scores for this event are purely based on the rubric, and even though my group knew exactly what we were doing and followed the rubric to the fine print, we, like many of the top teams (Harriton, Rustin, Conestoga) got placed above 25th. It makes absolutely no sense, and I would really like to be given some kind of explanation as to why this happened. I know it also screwed many other teams over, meaning something probably went wrong with the overall grading. I really hope there is some kind of closure for this, so all of the teams that thought they did well know what went wrong.


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