Illinois 2014

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Astronomer252
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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby Astronomer252 » April 13th, 2014, 4:27 pm

matthew101802 wrote:
qwertyuiop1234567890 wrote:Did they step aside? I saw some of them crying when they got third place.

I don't think they stepped down. Personally being from SAA, I was shocked because it was the first TIE at IL State in the top 3 EVER. Marie put up a fight , it sucks to have to go down to how many first place medals the team got to decide a winner.


I completely agree with you.
2013-14 Placements- WSU/ Lisle/ Grayslake/ Regionals/ State/ Nationals
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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby ckssv07 » April 13th, 2014, 4:36 pm

I understand, but it is a competition, and the competitiveness makes people want to work harder. I missed making the team in 6th grade, and the next year, I worked harder and made the team. Then my whole team failed at Nats, and we ended getting 11 last year at nats, despite me failing. Then this year, I have been that much more determined, and it has gotten me 35 placements this year. Competition can be stressful, but as long as you take any shortcomings positively, it makes you a better person.

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Astronomer252
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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby Astronomer252 » April 13th, 2014, 4:50 pm

ckssv07 wrote:I understand, but it is a competition, and the competitiveness makes people want to work harder. I missed making the team in 6th grade, and the next year, I worked harder and made the team. Then my whole team failed at Nats, and we ended getting 11 last year at nats, despite me failing. Then this year, I have been that much more determined, and it has gotten me 35 placements this year. Competition can be stressful, but as long as you take any shortcomings positively, it makes you a better person.


I agree with you too. I know it's w competition, but it stinks to be so close to winning and to have to go to the measures that the placement guys had to go to.
But I do definitely agree that taking shortcomings positively makes you a better person.
2013-14 Placements- WSU/ Lisle/ Grayslake/ Regionals/ State/ Nationals
Solar System: 1/1/2/1/1/18
Helicopters:15/1/3/3/4/18
Dynamic Planet:4/1/1/1/3/23
Team:3/2/2/1/2/14

2014-15 Placements- Regionals/ State
Astronomy: 3/?
Dynamic Planet: 1/?
Geologic Mapping: 2/?
Team: 4/?

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » April 13th, 2014, 4:58 pm

While I agree to an extent, can you imagine announcing that middle school teams will no longer be able to compete at states or nationals? While it is true that middle schoolers are still in a maturing stage, I don't think you can ban them from states just because of that. Think of all the other competitions that take place in middle school: GeoBee, the Spelling Bee... both of those put middle schoolers in high pressure environments. Heck, the Spelling Bee is broadcast on TV! But those kids respond great to the pressure, and while it's natural to get emotional if things don't go your way, I think that's an important part of growing up, and we shouldn't run Division B like it's a second-class competition. The best teams from middle school deserve to be able to attend the event, and the only way to determine the teams who can go is by using a state competition.
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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby AJTheGreat1729 » April 13th, 2014, 6:03 pm

I could not agree more.
It's bound to occur sometimes that one point from either side could tip the scales, and as ckssv said, taking the shortcomings well is the optimal way to take them.

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby fanjiatian » April 13th, 2014, 6:35 pm

mrsteven wrote:but really, they wouldn't. Or shouldn't by the time you're in high school a level of maturity is expected of you greater than that. They should be able to put what is going on around them in more perspective then thinking that a singular competition defines their self worth.
A vast majority of people in the high school level are aspiring engineers, scientists, and technologists; they really tend to act like it more often than not. You didn't see NT getting physically upset last year after they got 2nd, nor IMSA after they got 3rd (a number of years in a row, though not as close this one)

The point I'm making is not to point fingers at a team and single them out, just that the level of intensity this seems to bring out in the higher level of competitions is probably too much for them: 1 to handle, 2 to process that not winning is not failure, 3 to understand its about learning, not winning, 4 this in no way will have affects anywhere outside of that auditorium. And certainly Scioly produces meaningful affects to them in letting them experience some limited hands on science, which by all accounts is a plus as long as THEY'RE the ones doing it, not the parents.
With some of the "coaching" i've seen in years past (and even this year walking around my campus) so much more stress is placed on them than is entirely appropriate, in some cases. There really should be more protection of the younger people from overly competitive parents. What ever happened to 'its about having fun' or 'learning'? This is no different than a soccer game in many ways.

Now I should qualify that last bit to say I speak of the MS crowd. In the HS crowd, it is more competitive, as it should be. Those people are competing for college entrances, personal interest, and (possibly) scholarships. If you put on your college application you won state in MS, they wont care. HS has much more weight to it. I believe that if B div is to do an upper level competition it should to be focused on personal growth and knowledge, not a score up on a screen. They shouldn't rank, or if they do its ONLY the winner with no other available scoring to coaches or otherwise.

I believe that will yield a much more safe environment for learning and appropriate for the maturity.


I have to disagree
Crying does not mean that you feel a lack of self-worth. And you can certainly value learning while being competitive.

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby Le TARDIS » April 13th, 2014, 6:50 pm

I don't think teams should go in there "expecting" to win. That's what will get you in trouble. But if you go in with the attitude that I'm doing this because I LOVE Science, and did my best, then you should be happy. The problem with some teams is that they always "expected" to win and then were not gracious in the process at times. SAA didn't expect to win, but wanted to earn their personal best. Same with Grayslake who had a fantastic showing! They earned that 4th place trophy!
Last edited by Le TARDIS on April 14th, 2014, 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby AJTheGreat1729 » April 13th, 2014, 6:53 pm

I would not be surprised at all to see Grayslake going to Nationals in a short time. Everyone deserves to see their epic capes.
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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby Le TARDIS » April 13th, 2014, 6:56 pm

EastStroudsburg13 wrote:While I agree to an extent, can you imagine announcing that middle school teams will no longer be able to compete at states or nationals? While it is true that middle schoolers are still in a maturing stage, I don't think you can ban them from states just because of that. Think of all the other competitions that take place in middle school: GeoBee, the Spelling Bee... both of those put middle schoolers in high pressure environments. Heck, the Spelling Bee is broadcast on TV! But those kids respond great to the pressure, and while it's natural to get emotional if things don't go your way, I think that's an important part of growing up, and we shouldn't run Division B like it's a second-class competition. The best teams from middle school deserve to be able to attend the event, and the only way to determine the teams who can go is by using a state competition.


Students need to be taught and need to learn that winning isn't everything. Yes, there can be disappointment and life is full of disappointment, but one learns more from a failure than always succeeding. Some teams that were disappointed with their "lack" of winning, lost the concept of the love of science. It isn't about the medals. It's about the process. It's about the love of science. It's about the learning. What did you learn? What can you take away from the experience? And the parents shouldn't put the pressure "to win" on the poor kids, but rather to do their personal best. Competition can be good, at any age. We just have to teach people how to accept both winning and losing graciously...

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby Le TARDIS » April 13th, 2014, 6:58 pm

AJTheGreat1729 wrote:I would not be surprised at all to see Grayslake going to Nationals in a short time. Everyone deserves to see their epic capes.


Yea, those were awesome capes, weren't they? Very creative! And what great attitudes that team had!

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby HeavyHitter406 » April 13th, 2014, 7:08 pm

AJTheGreat1729 wrote:I would not be surprised at all to see Grayslake going to Nationals in a short time. Everyone deserves to see their epic capes.

You know, they actually went to nationals back in 1994 and have never been since?
2014 (Wright State/Lisle/Grayslake/Regionals/State/Nationals)

Water Quality: 8/1/2/1/2/3
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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby HeavyHitter406 » April 13th, 2014, 7:13 pm

I believe that competitiveness is a good trait to have, but people can actually work WORSE when under to much strain from coaches and parents. Luckily, I have so far avoided any coach in life who views winning as the most important thing and will stop at nothing to win (including yelling at their pupils). I believe that that has helped me develop a better work ethic and learn more, as well as have more fun. I mean, come on, who can work when if you don't do well you get kicked off the team? I mean, sure it might motivate you, but the point of this event was not to force people to memorize facts so that your school can have all the glory. This is supposed to be about the students, not the coaches, and it pains me to think that any coach of SO is in this for their own purposes rather than to get kids involved in science and learning potentially valuable information.
2014 (Wright State/Lisle/Grayslake/Regionals/State/Nationals)

Water Quality: 8/1/2/1/2/3
Experimental Design: 12/1/5/5/8/37
Road Scholar: 12/2/2/3/3/11
Wheeled Vehicle: 32/6/6/2/11/5

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby Le TARDIS » April 13th, 2014, 7:15 pm

Skink wrote:When I said 'step aside', I didn't mean they'd get second and opt not to go. I meant they wouldn't qualify. And my prediction was almost wrong but right, nevertheless! Congrats to S&A, though MM is in about the roughest position possible.


They're not in the roughest position possible...they've had wonderful opportunities for the past several years. It's nice that other schools who work just as hard are rewarded for their efforts. Wouldn't it be great if several schools had the opportunities to attend Nationals the way MM has for all those years?

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby Crazy Puny Man » April 13th, 2014, 7:40 pm

Le TARDIS wrote:The problem with MM is that they always "expected" to win and were not gracious in the process at times.


I don't think you can make that claim if your only evidence is that they cried afterward. Just because they were disappointed does not necessarily mean they were expecting to qualify.

When I was in 8th grade and missed nationals by 1 point, I was very disappointed. I wasn't expecting to go, though, because my school had only gone to nationals 3 times in its history up to that point. Still, it didn't stop me from being bummed.

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Re: Illinois 2014

Postby matthew101802 » April 13th, 2014, 7:51 pm

Crazy Puny Man wrote:
Le TARDIS wrote:The problem with MM is that they always "expected" to win and were not gracious in the process at times.


I don't think you can make that claim if your only evidence is that they cried afterward. Just because they were disappointed does not necessarily mean they were expecting to qualify.

When I was in 8th grade and missed nationals by 1 point, I was very disappointed. I wasn't expecting to go, though, because my school had only gone to nationals 3 times in its history up to that point. Still, it didn't stop me from being bummed.

I agree. I don't think any team 'expected' to win, but they hoped to win. You can't blame MM for this, it was a tie for a bid to Nats.
Last edited by matthew101802 on April 13th, 2014, 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SO Events 2013 (JV)
Inv/R/S
Boom 3/1/-
Keep The Heat 1/1/-
Shock 1/3/-
Pentathlon -/-/2



SO Events 2014 (V)
Wright State/Lisle/R/S/N
WIDI 7/8/2/29/39
Robo 7/1/1/9/17
Shock 2/1/1/1/9
Simple 12/2/1/11/26

Kaboom!
Total Medal Count: 20


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