Unofficial Rankings C

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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby taaffeite » March 24th, 2014, 8:35 am

Kentucky
I agree. The fact that NY refuses to align its schedule with Nationals handicaps the teams making placing in the top 5 almost impossible. It adds an unnecessary burden. Considering performance at such a high level, the smallest obstacle is difficult to overcome. Even though the term Olympiad is used in the name, the mentality of the two organizing bodies of the two different enterprises is completely different. Take the world series. Can you imagine the American League telling players that their bases will differ from those used in the World series even if only by a few inches? That is why designated players is so controversial. There is a reason that so much focus is placed on things like footwear in sports. The difference between sneakers may be just enough to help someone win a race by a fraction of a second. Given equal talent and prep, the sneaker factor becomes huge. Officials in New York don't really care about winning nationals. Its like peewee sports instead of the Olympics. The focus is on all teams having a good time. That is not a bad goal but it is a different one than the actual Olympics.

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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby ckssv07 » March 24th, 2014, 8:54 am

taaffeite wrote:Kentucky
I agree. The fact that NY refuses to align its schedule with Nationals handicaps the teams making placing in the top 5 almost impossible. It adds an unnecessary burden. Considering performance at such a high level, the smallest obstacle is difficult to overcome. Even though the term Olympiad is used in the name, the mentality of the two organizing bodies of the two different enterprises is completely different. Take the world series. Can you imagine the American League telling players that their bases will differ from those used in the World series even if only by a few inches? That is why designated players is so controversial. There is a reason that so much focus is placed on things like footwear in sports. The difference between sneakers may be just enough to help someone win a race by a fraction of a second. Given equal talent and prep, the sneaker factor becomes huge. Officials in New York don't really care about winning nationals. Its like peewee sports instead of the Olympics. The focus is on all teams having a good time. That is not a bad goal but it is a different one than the actual Olympics.

I understand what you both are saying, but by the same token, PA does not align their schedules at all with the Nationals schedules. Their tournament is also only 2-3 weeks before Nationals, yet the teams, especially in division C are able to do rather well and place quite high at Nationals.

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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby taaffeite » March 24th, 2014, 10:07 am

Yes it is certainly possible for the team from any state, regardless of their States schedule, to win. But just a little less likely when schedules differ. My point isn't really to suggest that scheduling is what determines outcome. My comments are to suggest that the schedules should be standardized to eliminate it as a factor.

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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby kentuckyfan1001 » March 24th, 2014, 2:35 pm

ckssv07 wrote:
taaffeite wrote:Kentucky
I agree. The fact that NY refuses to align its schedule with Nationals handicaps the teams making placing in the top 5 almost impossible. It adds an unnecessary burden. Considering performance at such a high level, the smallest obstacle is difficult to overcome. Even though the term Olympiad is used in the name, the mentality of the two organizing bodies of the two different enterprises is completely different. Take the world series. Can you imagine the American League telling players that their bases will differ from those used in the World series even if only by a few inches? That is why designated players is so controversial. There is a reason that so much focus is placed on things like footwear in sports. The difference between sneakers may be just enough to help someone win a race by a fraction of a second. Given equal talent and prep, the sneaker factor becomes huge. Officials in New York don't really care about winning nationals. Its like peewee sports instead of the Olympics. The focus is on all teams having a good time. That is not a bad goal but it is a different one than the actual Olympics.

I understand what you both are saying, but by the same token, PA does not align their schedules at all with the Nationals schedules. Their tournament is also only 2-3 weeks before Nationals, yet the teams, especially in division C are able to do rather well and place quite high at Nationals.


This is certainly true; however, from what I've seen at PA States, it seems to be still run pretty close to what NSO has in that the same events are used and the same scoring system as well. However, NYS still has two extra events, which skews some of the scoring and the way you schedule, regardless.
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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby blhab » March 29th, 2014, 9:59 am

1. Troy
2. Seven Lakes
3. Solon
4. Centerville/Mentor
5. New Trier
6. Adlai E. Stevenson
7. Grand Haven
8. Fayetteville-Manlius
9. Harriton
10. Munster

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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby Crazy Puny Man » March 29th, 2014, 10:30 am

No Mounds View?

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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby Astroknight » March 29th, 2014, 12:33 pm

Crazy Puny Man wrote:No Mounds View?


I think at this point we've figured out that there are more than ten top-ten caliber teams. This being said, it would be impossible to put all these teams in the top ten.
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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby syo_astro » March 29th, 2014, 12:37 pm

Astroknight wrote:
Crazy Puny Man wrote:No Mounds View?


I think at this point we've figured out that there are more than ten top-ten caliber teams. This being said, it would be impossible to put all these teams in the top ten.


Maybe what Crazy Puny Man means is how do you think that Munster (no offense to your school!) gets into the top 10 over Mounds View or some of the other really good schools from last year?
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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby Astroknight » March 29th, 2014, 12:46 pm

syo_astro wrote:
Astroknight wrote:
Crazy Puny Man wrote:No Mounds View?


I think at this point we've figured out that there are more than ten top-ten caliber teams. This being said, it would be impossible to put all these teams in the top ten.


Maybe what Crazy Puny Man means is how do you think that Munster (no offense to your school!) gets into the top 10 over Mounds View or some of the other really good schools from last year?


For one, I'm in Tennessee and B division, so I feel no bias. Maybe we should expand this to a top 15.
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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby syo_astro » March 29th, 2014, 1:00 pm

I don't see how being in TN/Div B or not makes bias, never was pointing that out (I can see that from your account, no worries). Most people have their bias with making this top 10, I'll make my own if/when that official top 10 thing comes around again on the site. What I meant was that those really good schools (Mounds View, WWPS, Camas, etc) have done quite well in the past. If you want to rank everyone through to the top 20 you can (is anyone against that?), but I think even if unexpected results can always be considered most people tend to go with safer predictions.
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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby Astroknight » March 29th, 2014, 1:20 pm

syo_astro wrote:I don't see how being in TN/Div B or not makes bias, never was pointing that out (I can see that from your account, no worries). Most people have their bias with making this top 10, I'll make my own if/when that official top 10 thing comes around again on the site. What I meant was that those really good schools (Mounds View, WWPS, Camas, etc) have done quite well in the past. If you want to rank everyone through to the top 20 you can (is anyone against that?), but I think even if unexpected results can always be considered most people tend to go with safer predictions.


Alright, I guess I'm getting too nitpicky, and I didn't mean to start an argument by any means.
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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby syo_astro » March 29th, 2014, 1:25 pm

Astroknight wrote:
syo_astro wrote:I don't see how being in TN/Div B or not makes bias, never was pointing that out (I can see that from your account, no worries). Most people have their bias with making this top 10, I'll make my own if/when that official top 10 thing comes around again on the site. What I meant was that those really good schools (Mounds View, WWPS, Camas, etc) have done quite well in the past. If you want to rank everyone through to the top 20 you can (is anyone against that?), but I think even if unexpected results can always be considered most people tend to go with safer predictions.


Alright, I guess I'm getting too nitpicky, and I didn't mean to start an argument by any means.


Yep, wasn't meaning to make an argument, sry if I said something weird. Most people have their own views about this, we'll see.
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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby zyzzyva980 » March 29th, 2014, 4:37 pm

When all the teams are announced I want to see at least five people post a complete ranking of all 60 teams. There's your challenge. Do your research.
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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby Astroknight » March 29th, 2014, 4:55 pm

zyzzyva980 wrote:When all the teams are announced I want to see at least five people post a complete ranking of all 60 teams. There's your challenge. Do your research.


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Re: Unofficial Rankings C

Postby fozendog » March 29th, 2014, 5:02 pm

zyzzyva980 wrote:When all the teams are announced I want to see at least five people post a complete ranking of all 60 teams. There's your challenge. Do your research.

Oof.

syo_astro wrote:If you want to rank everyone through to the top 20 you can (is anyone against that?)

Ranking through 20 would be interesting... 15-20 would be slightly difficult, IMO...
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