Can't Judge a Powder B

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by asthedeer » December 16th, 2014, 9:15 am

No specific way as far as I know. I do believe though, that they like organized observations. For example, I wouldn't do an observation about the color of the powder for #1, then have another observation such as "The HCl conducts electricity" for #2, but instead put all the observations about the powder in, say, the first 10 observations.
I'm not sure what you mean by "referring back to the solution". Does it mean looking at the solution for everything you write?
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by dholdgreve » December 16th, 2014, 10:34 am

A few suggestions from one that has run this event for several years:
* Each observation should stand on it's own... don't assume that because the observation prior was with an aqueous solution, that I will assume that this is as well... I won't.
* Pronouns are rarely a good thing in this event... Better to take the extra few seconds and write it out.
* This event boils down to giving a better observation than your competition... Look at it as being graded on a curve... Try to structure your observations to be both quantitative as well as qualitative
* Find ways to make your observations just a little better than the competitions by using adjectives that better describe what you observed
* Yes, abbreviations theoretically are allowed, if defined somewhere on the page, but is it worth the risk? If we are grading 50 tests in as little as an hour, it is very easy to miss the abbreviation key... I would not risk it
* The intent means nothing if I can't read what you've written... I'll give you every possible benefit, but if I can't read it, I can't give you credit. Decide if you or your partner have the neatest hand writing, and have that one do the recording
* In every test, there will probably be at least 1 question that you did not record an observation for - Yes, you are allowed to write in an answer, but it should be in form of an observation; complete and whole (i.e substance was soluble in
water...not "yes")
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by samlan16 » December 18th, 2014, 11:00 am

To any coaches out there: we got our school's CJAP tests back from an invitational, and our teams lost points because they answered questions with more than 3 observations. When I competed in this event in B division, there was no such rule. Did the proctors goof, or is this a legitimate rule now that I missed when reading the rules?
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by robotarmy567 » January 2nd, 2015, 12:52 pm

does anyone know what a "pure substance" is :?
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by Moxyfinkle » January 3rd, 2015, 5:25 pm

samlan16 wrote:To any coaches out there: we got our school's CJAP tests back from an invitational, and our teams lost points because they answered questions with more than 3 observations. When I competed in this event in B division, there was no such rule. Did the proctors goof, or is this a legitimate rule now that I missed when reading the rules?
It's not an official rule, but some proctors (especially at invitationals) do place a limit on the number of observations you can answer a question with. They're supposed to tell the teams if they do that though. It's best not to put down more than 3 observations unless absolutely necessary.I think the nats proctor also had that same limit, but correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by asthedeer » January 3rd, 2015, 6:45 pm

Not last year that I know of.
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by asthedeer » January 3rd, 2015, 6:47 pm

robotarmy567 wrote:does anyone know what a "pure substance" is :?
A pure substance is a substance....that's just it....it's a substance, not flour and sugar; not water and oil; not sugar and salt. CJAP only takes a pure substance like flour, or baking soda, or salt; unlike Crime Busters, which takes mixtures of powders.
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by asthedeer » January 3rd, 2015, 6:50 pm

Moxyfinkle wrote:
samlan16 wrote:To any coaches out there: we got our school's CJAP tests back from an invitational, and our teams lost points because they answered questions with more than 3 observations. When I competed in this event in B division, there was no such rule. Did the proctors goof, or is this a legitimate rule now that I missed when reading the rules?
It's not an official rule, but some proctors (especially at invitationals) do place a limit on the number of observations you can answer a question with. They're supposed to tell the teams if they do that though. It's best not to put down more than 3 observations unless absolutely necessary.I think the nats proctor also had that same limit, but correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think there was anything at Nationals last year that had limits on the number of observations.
robotarmy567 wrote:does anyone know what a "pure substance" is :?
A pure substance it just that- a substance. It's not flour and salt, sugar and salt, baking soda and baking powder, but just flour, sugar, salt, and baking soda, unlike Crime Busters, which takes mixtures of powders.
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by Fibonacci924 » January 20th, 2015, 6:09 pm

Take as many observations as you possibly can in that time period. If you think you have enough, add some more. I've been doing this event three times now, and the test always changes.
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Post by dholdgreve » January 21st, 2015, 10:38 am

A couple of comments from an E/C:
I'll take points off if the observations are not directly related to the question (otherwise why wouldn't you just write down all observation numbers for all questions to make sure you are covered?)
Use as many observations as you'd like, just make sure they apply. Time after time, I may ask a question using terms such as cohesive, adhesive, effervescence, angle of repose, etc... Usually the ones that list 6 or 7 observations are the ones that do not understand the meaning of the term used in the question, thus the observations have little to nothing to do with the correct answer, so points are deducted... in some cases all the way down to 0. (Don't think I've ever given a negative score tho)
You are probably far better off focusing on super high quality observations than on quantity of observations... With 100 observations, you probably will not be able to find the ones you need, and they probably will not be of the quality that will land you 5 points.
Reread the rules... Answer the questions with only an observation number when at all possible... Augmenting an observation with additional write in info may actually cost you points as even a great write-in is only worth 2 points.
Quantify your observations whenever possible. Most are very good at qualifying, few quantify.
Look around the room... How can you phrase your observation that will make it just a little better than any other in the room?
Really read the question... Can it be adequately answered with a single observation, or does it require 2 or more to fully answer the question?
These tests are graded on the curve... So at the last invitational, you may have received a 5 for describing the unknown one way, and a 4 this time, using the exact same phrase... as the season progresses, the competition gets stronger... keep up or fall behind. Only the very best observations receive a 5, and its based on tests graded today, not next week or last week... Competitions with 50 or 60 teams will likely require a much higher quality observation than competitions with only 20 or 25 teams.
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