Can't Judge a Powder B

MyChemicalReaction
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby MyChemicalReaction » January 21st, 2015, 3:40 pm

Can somebody please give me an example and clarify the difference between a 5 point answer, a 4 point answer, a 3 point answer, etc.? It would be VERY much appreciated.

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby MyChemicalReaction » January 21st, 2015, 3:47 pm

Is density a observation or infrence? Because it seems like an observation to me, but this one site told me otherwise...

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby dholdgreve » January 22nd, 2015, 5:53 am

Can somebody please give me an example and clarify the difference between a 5 point answer, a 4 point answer, a 3 point answer, etc.? It would be VERY much appreciated.
I'd suggest reading the post right above yours that explains that each tournament test is unique... a 5 point answer at one could be a 3 point answer at another... Each test is graded on a curve with only the top answers received getting a perfect 5... Sometimes, the best answers received, may not be the perfect answer, but it's the best we received, so even though they are not perfect, they still get the 5. The only thing that should be consistent from 1 test to the next is that you will never receive more than 2 points for a write-in answer. This part is not curved.
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby dholdgreve » January 22nd, 2015, 6:01 am

Is density a observation or infrence? Because it seems like an observation to me, but this one site told me otherwise...
Depends how it is worded... To say that the unknown floated in water or sunk in water is no doubt an observation... I think saying that "the substance is heavier than water" could be considered an inference of the substance sunk when added to water. To say that the density of the unknown is greater than water, is most likely going to be ruled an inference.

If you can add a "because" behind your statement, it is probably an inference... "The density of the unknown is greater than water BECAUSE is sunk when placed in it."
If you cannot directly tie one of your senses to the observation, it is probably an inference... Saying that the density is greater than 1 or greater than water does not directly relate to any of your 5 senses... Saying that it sunk in water because I WATCHED IT, involves the sense of sight.

Again, each E/C probably has a slightly different take on it. If in doubt, feel free to ask your E/C if (s)he would consider the density statement an inference or an observation before the event begins... The worst that can happen is that they tell you they can't answer that... I promise they will not take points off for asking a question before the event begins.
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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby Skink » January 25th, 2015, 5:07 pm

Can somebody please give me an example and clarify the difference between a 5 point answer, a 4 point answer, a 3 point answer, etc.? It would be VERY much appreciated.
Each test is graded on a curve with only the top answers received getting a perfect 5... Sometimes, the best answers received, may not be the perfect answer, but it's the best we received, so even though they are not perfect, they still get the 5.
This will differ from supervisor to supervisor. Many will, conversely, come in with a pre-written scoring rubric laying out the criteria in advance such that it's entirely possible that no team competing meets the standard expected to receive a 5 on question #9. There is no provision in the rules that lays out how this is done. It would be nice if there were.

At MyChemicalReaction, then, this event is lacking in assurance, as you can tell. There is a published example if you follow a few links on the National site, but it sets guidelines or suggestions, not extra rules. For that reason, I won't link you (though you're, of course, free to locate it yourself!). Instead, how I would suggest you practice is to take your observations to your coach and have him or her critique your writing. If they can find room for improvement that you, then, address, you're that much closer to impressing the next event supervisor who reads your observations. That's the only safe way to try to get a 5 from what I've been able to tell. There's too much risk of me or anyone else telling you what's 'good enough' for a 5 versus a 4 when we really don't know how you will be scored.

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby MareezyWA » February 14th, 2015, 5:29 am

Brand new to this forum and SO. So sorry if I should have posted this someplace else - can't find the "New Topic" button. :)

Coach said to take the rules very literally and so we did at regional. Nowhere on the list of what "students may bring" was a thermometer. Coach taught us how to tell relative temperature change by using the back of our wrists. She was pretty sure a thermometer would be provided because it was on a list of what "supervisor may provide". Coach said that it is was not on the list that "students may bring" don't bring it because teams have sometimes been penalized for bringing things that are not on the student list. I know, I know, but how can you tell if a rxn is exothermic or endothermic without a thermometer??? And so our coach taught us that very non quantitative way with our wrist in case we were not given thermometers.

So at the competition, we look around and see just about every team with a thermometer - WHAT? Not in the rules that they could bring it. The supervisor did ask us if we had a thermometer and we said no. They said "oh" and nothing more so we proceeded without it. In looking back now, we are wondering if after they asked that question, we were supposed to ask to get one from them. Again, in the rules it did not say that supervisor WILL provide, only that they MAY provide so we are very confused and want to figure this our before state. Thanks for any help that you can offer.

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby chalker » February 14th, 2015, 6:51 am

Brand new to this forum and SO. So sorry if I should have posted this someplace else - can't find the "New Topic" button. :)

Coach said to take the rules very literally and so we did at regional. Nowhere on the list of what "students may bring" was a thermometer. Coach taught us how to tell relative temperature change by using the back of our wrists. She was pretty sure a thermometer would be provided because it was on a list of what "supervisor may provide". Coach said that it is was not on the list that "students may bring" don't bring it because teams have sometimes been penalized for bringing things that are not on the student list. I know, I know, but how can you tell if a rxn is exothermic or endothermic without a thermometer??? And so our coach taught us that very non quantitative way with our wrist in case we were not given thermometers.

So at the competition, we look around and see just about every team with a thermometer - WHAT? Not in the rules that they could bring it. The supervisor did ask us if we had a thermometer and we said no. They said "oh" and nothing more so we proceeded without it. In looking back now, we are wondering if after they asked that question, we were supposed to ask to get one from them. Again, in the rules it did not say that supervisor WILL provide, only that they MAY provide so we are very confused and want to figure this our before state. Thanks for any help that you can offer.
You are correct in assuming you shouldn't bring a thermometer - the rules are very specific regarding that. Note however individual event supervisors sometimes don't follow the rules exactly either due to a mistake on their part or a lack of resources. You definitely should ask the supervisor anytime you notice something out of place. It might have been that the supervisor made a clarification on this thermometer issue BEFORE the tournament and somehow you didn't get the notice.

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby MareezyWA » February 14th, 2015, 6:56 am

Thanks so much. We will look to see if there was something we missed.

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby samlan16 » February 14th, 2015, 7:33 am

Brand new to this forum and SO. So sorry if I should have posted this someplace else - can't find the "New Topic" button. :)

Coach said to take the rules very literally and so we did at regional. Nowhere on the list of what "students may bring" was a thermometer. Coach taught us how to tell relative temperature change by using the back of our wrists. She was pretty sure a thermometer would be provided because it was on a list of what "supervisor may provide". Coach said that it is was not on the list that "students may bring" don't bring it because teams have sometimes been penalized for bringing things that are not on the student list. I know, I know, but how can you tell if a rxn is exothermic or endothermic without a thermometer??? And so our coach taught us that very non quantitative way with our wrist in case we were not given thermometers.

So at the competition, we look around and see just about every team with a thermometer - WHAT? Not in the rules that they could bring it. The supervisor did ask us if we had a thermometer and we said no. They said "oh" and nothing more so we proceeded without it. In looking back now, we are wondering if after they asked that question, we were supposed to ask to get one from them. Again, in the rules it did not say that supervisor WILL provide, only that they MAY provide so we are very confused and want to figure this our before state. Thanks for any help that you can offer.
You are correct in assuming you shouldn't bring a thermometer - the rules are very specific regarding that. Note however individual event supervisors sometimes don't follow the rules exactly either due to a mistake on their part or a lack of resources. You definitely should ask the supervisor anytime you notice something out of place. It might have been that the supervisor made a clarification on this thermometer issue BEFORE the tournament and somehow you didn't get the notice.
I would also recommend checking to see if your state has specific rules for CJAP that are used at all regional and state tournaments. Some states revise the rules because of cheating problems or for safety concerns and tweak minor things like that. My state, for example, does not allow Astronomy teams to have laptops at competitions, although the national rules permit it.
Remember, we are proud of every team that participated and you are all winners.

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Re: Can't Judge a Powder B

Postby Skink » February 14th, 2015, 8:33 am

This event is plagued by, at least, three major problems, and this issue of what to bring and not to bring is one of them. Too many event supervisors are not reading the rules to the letter as MareezyWA's coach instructed him or her to do as a participant, but coaches are at fault here for not holding event supervisors accountable when they, for example, require students to bring thermometers without advance notice prior to the tournament. I've seen that this season. Related, a FAQ was posted last night in response to a question I submitted. It's worth a read to anyone competing or interested in the general issue.
I know, I know, but how can you tell if a rxn is exothermic or endothermic without a thermometer??? And so our coach taught us that very non quantitative way with our wrist in case we were not given thermometers.
If you're not given thermometers, then I would not expect questions about this unless the reaction vessel obviously heats up or cools off. The thing is, many teams use well plates, and those, unlike test tubes and the like, aren't good for testing this with your skin. That wouldn't be the best question, then! It would favor the teams using test tubes.


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