Picture This B

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Picture This B

Postby Jim_R » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:29 pm

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Re: Picture This B

Postby hscmom » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:09 am

OK, my brain hurts...

I tried to ask for a clarification on soinc but the dialog box never came up (guessing it is too early in the year but could be something with my browser) and I am chatting about it on the roundtable. And I know, I really need to get the clarification.

So, where do you think the line is drawn for symbols? I can understand not using something like this: http://www.ikonet.com/en/visualdictiona ... clouds.php but sometimes a concept can't really be drawn without a symbol. How do you draw gravity? Maybe an apple falling out of the tree? Well, is does that drawing "look like gravity" or not? Is that allowed?

How about a heart shape? I mean it sort of is shaped like the organ named heart. Is it close enough to a heart in your body? Or, how about if you add some little blood vessels coming out of it? How similar must it be?

OK, here is another example. Let's say we're drawing scavenger. We have a bird picking on a dead animal and to make the animal look dead, we've got X's for eyes on it. Dead animals don't really have eyes that look like X's, but they look sort of like X's. Is that OK?
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Re: Picture This B

Postby bernard » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:13 am

I can't answer your question (because I have no experience in this event), but I can confirm that rules clarification don't open until October.
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Re: Picture This B

Postby humanbeingofearth548 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:32 pm

hscmom wrote:So, where do you think the line is drawn for symbols? I can understand not using something like this: http://www.ikonet.com/en/visualdictiona ... clouds.php but sometimes a concept can't really be drawn without a symbol. How do you draw gravity? Maybe an apple falling out of the tree? Well, is does that drawing "look like gravity" or not? Is that allowed?

How about a heart shape? I mean it sort of is shaped like the organ named heart. Is it close enough to a heart in your body? Or, how about if you add some little blood vessels coming out of it? How similar must it be?

OK, here is another example. Let's say we're drawing scavenger. We have a bird picking on a dead animal and to make the animal look dead, we've got X's for eyes on it. Dead animals don't really have eyes that look like X's, but they look sort of like X's. Is that OK?

I have NEVER done this event yet, but I have seen the 2004 powerpoint for it....It's kinda confusing, but I'm guessing the scavenger and heart would be ok...The meterology? Perhaps not, but I don't know really...I think, to me, it would be ok? Because it's not a secret code or anything, it's something that everyone could study off of, IF they find the website.SOOOOOO, it think all 3 are ok.. :D
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2016 Events: Experimental Design, Fossils, Picture This, Scrambler

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Re: Picture This B

Postby hscmom » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:11 pm

Thanks for the clarification on the clarifications - we'll wait to ask. Until then, we'll press on.

I THINK the spirit of the rule is we don't want kids memorizing symbols that don't really look like the objects. So, instead of drawing that cold front symbol (line on map with triangles), draw a cold and a front, how ever you do that, or weather changing from nice to not so nice.
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Re: Picture This B

Postby c-shell617 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:33 am

Hey! So I have never done this event, and the rules are unclear. Are you able to draw a belt + an asteroid, so you know that the draw is of an asteroid belt? Or do you have to actually draw an asteroid belt? This event seems fun, But I need to know whether you can draw such as described above, because if so that would be SO MUCH EASIER! Please try to answer to the best of your abilities! Thanks!

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Re: Picture This B

Postby sofan » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:58 am

c-shell617 wrote:Hey! So I have never done this event, and the rules are unclear. Are you able to draw a belt + an asteroid, so you know that the draw is of an asteroid belt? Or do you have to actually draw an asteroid belt? This event seems fun, But I need to know whether you can draw such as described above, because if so that would be SO MUCH EASIER! Please try to answer to the best of your abilities! Thanks!

You can but i don't think you can use + because they consider that a symbol.

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Re: Picture This B

Postby GoofyFoofer » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:59 am

You can draw two lines two represent two words, then use a picture for each word, if that helps.

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Re: Picture This B

Postby aditi » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:05 pm

Hello, I'm new to this topic... Apparently there was a conflict at Invitationals and I'm not doing one of my topics anymore and I'm doing Picture This. Does anyone have any tips, tricks, or anything else for this topic? Thank you! :D
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Re: Picture This B

Postby RitaThompson » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:12 pm

hscmom wrote:Thanks for the clarification on the clarifications - we'll wait to ask. Until then, we'll press on.

I THINK the spirit of the rule is we don't want kids memorizing symbols that don't really look like the objects. So, instead of drawing that cold front symbol (line on map with triangles), draw a cold and a front, how ever you do that, or weather changing from nice to not so nice.


I feel like our team is learning how to represent a cold front in that way and then they are learning science jargon and the usual symbols used by scientists to represent their fields. I am confused by the rules, because I don't know if the "belt" could be used to get your teammates to say "asteroid belt" (I don't think that was allowed last year when it was a trial event)...will we get a clarification on this?

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Re: Picture This B

Postby Shawn C » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:47 am

For the Picture This event, if there's only one word that needs to be said but the guesser adds more, like saying kinetic energy and the word is energy, do you still get the point?

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Re: Picture This B

Postby Skink » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:59 pm

If you're really concerned about it, submit a rules question. I think the rules are fairly clear about this despite not addressing your question directly.
Shawn C wrote:For the Picture This event, if there's only one word that needs to be said but the guesser adds more, like saying kinetic energy and the word is energy, do you still get the point?

Refer to section 3 of the rules. 3.c. tells us that minus signs are for shortening single words. From the same section, underlines are for indicating how many words there are (which I'd get into the habit of doing if it's a multiple word term). Next, looking at 3.f. and 3.c. lines 3 and 4, we see that the supervisor will be looking for the exact word. If 'refract' is not an okay substitute for 'refraction', then 'kinetic energy' is not an okay substitute for 'energy', especially when your partner has the ability to tell you how many words are in the term. Both are close but not quite there.

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Re: Picture This B

Postby hscmom » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:51 pm

Respectfully disagreeing

Skink wrote:If you're really concerned about it, submit a rules question. I think the rules are fairly clear about this despite not addressing your question directly.
Shawn C wrote:For the Picture This event, if there's only one word that needs to be said but the guesser adds more, like saying kinetic energy and the word is energy, do you still get the point?

Refer to section 3 of the rules. 3.c. tells us that minus signs are for shortening single words. From the same section, underlines are for indicating how many words there are (which I'd get into the habit of doing if it's a multiple word term). Next, looking at 3.f. and 3.c. lines 3 and 4, we see that the supervisor will be looking for the exact word. If 'refract' is not an okay substitute for 'refraction', then 'kinetic energy' is not an okay substitute for 'energy', especially when your partner has the ability to tell you how many words are in the term. Both are close but not quite there.


OK, I'm interpreting the rules differently than Skink.

Example 1: The word is REFRACT and one of the guessers says REFRACTION. Well, the word refraction is not the word refract, so the drawer adds a minus sign to the drawing and the guesser says refract. Good. The exact word was refract and they said refract.

Example 2: The word on the card is ENERGY and the drawer draws something that makes the guesser say "Kinetic energy" (perhaps in the string of words he might have said "work potential nuclear power watt directional force" too). Well, the word was "energy" and the guesser said "energy" (he also said a lot of other words). In my book, he has said the word. The rules do not specify the amount of time between words and an excited and focused PT team will likely be spewing out related phrases. Bottom line: If you say "kinetic energy" you have said "energy" - and if you say "unicorn energy" or "pickle energy" or "force newton joule energy" (because that's what the drawing made you think of) you have also said "energy." The exact word was energy and they said energy (they also said a lot of other stuff!). It's not like the "energy" in the phrase "kinetic energy" is not the exact word energy - it is; it's just preceded by the word kinetic. Two different words, but energy was in there.

Example 3: The phrase on the card is KINETIC ENERGY. The guesser says a string of words and when "energy" is said, the supervisor indicates (in his own way) that the drawer can write energy (and he may or may not write it). The guesser now starts spewing kinds of energy. If he says something like "nuclear potential kinetic" the supervisor should indicate that the drawer can write "kinetic" and the phrase is not complete until a guesser says "kinetic energy" (In other words, saying "energy potential nuclear kinetic" is not the same as saying "kinetic energy") The exact phrase was kinetic energy and that's what they said.
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Re: Picture This B

Postby Shawn C » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:01 pm

Okay, now I am confused. Is it okay to do what I asked, or no?

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Re: Picture This B

Postby hscmom » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:08 pm

(Insert usual disclaimer here): Yes, its OK.



That said, never a bad idea to ask the supervisor(s) before you start of any gray areas.
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