Picture This B

Shawn C
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Re: Picture This B

Post by Shawn C » February 2nd, 2015, 7:47 pm

For the Picture This event, if there's only one word that needs to be said but the guesser adds more, like saying kinetic energy and the word is energy, do you still get the point?

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Re: Picture This B

Post by Skink » February 3rd, 2015, 8:59 am

If you're really concerned about it, submit a rules question. I think the rules are fairly clear about this despite not addressing your question directly.
Shawn C wrote:For the Picture This event, if there's only one word that needs to be said but the guesser adds more, like saying kinetic energy and the word is energy, do you still get the point?
Refer to section 3 of the rules. 3.c. tells us that minus signs are for shortening single words. From the same section, underlines are for indicating how many words there are (which I'd get into the habit of doing if it's a multiple word term). Next, looking at 3.f. and 3.c. lines 3 and 4, we see that the supervisor will be looking for the exact word. If 'refract' is not an okay substitute for 'refraction', then 'kinetic energy' is not an okay substitute for 'energy', especially when your partner has the ability to tell you how many words are in the term. Both are close but not quite there.

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Re: Picture This B

Post by hscmom » February 5th, 2015, 2:51 pm

Respectfully disagreeing
Skink wrote:If you're really concerned about it, submit a rules question. I think the rules are fairly clear about this despite not addressing your question directly.
Shawn C wrote:For the Picture This event, if there's only one word that needs to be said but the guesser adds more, like saying kinetic energy and the word is energy, do you still get the point?
Refer to section 3 of the rules. 3.c. tells us that minus signs are for shortening single words. From the same section, underlines are for indicating how many words there are (which I'd get into the habit of doing if it's a multiple word term). Next, looking at 3.f. and 3.c. lines 3 and 4, we see that the supervisor will be looking for the exact word. If 'refract' is not an okay substitute for 'refraction', then 'kinetic energy' is not an okay substitute for 'energy', especially when your partner has the ability to tell you how many words are in the term. Both are close but not quite there.
OK, I'm interpreting the rules differently than Skink.

Example 1: The word is REFRACT and one of the guessers says REFRACTION. Well, the word refraction is not the word refract, so the drawer adds a minus sign to the drawing and the guesser says refract. Good. The exact word was refract and they said refract.

Example 2: The word on the card is ENERGY and the drawer draws something that makes the guesser say "Kinetic energy" (perhaps in the string of words he might have said "work potential nuclear power watt directional force" too). Well, the word was "energy" and the guesser said "energy" (he also said a lot of other words). In my book, he has said the word. The rules do not specify the amount of time between words and an excited and focused PT team will likely be spewing out related phrases. Bottom line: If you say "kinetic energy" you have said "energy" - and if you say "unicorn energy" or "pickle energy" or "force newton joule energy" (because that's what the drawing made you think of) you have also said "energy." The exact word was energy and they said energy (they also said a lot of other stuff!). It's not like the "energy" in the phrase "kinetic energy" is not the exact word energy - it is; it's just preceded by the word kinetic. Two different words, but energy was in there.

Example 3: The phrase on the card is KINETIC ENERGY. The guesser says a string of words and when "energy" is said, the supervisor indicates (in his own way) that the drawer can write energy (and he may or may not write it). The guesser now starts spewing kinds of energy. If he says something like "nuclear potential kinetic" the supervisor should indicate that the drawer can write "kinetic" and the phrase is not complete until a guesser says "kinetic energy" (In other words, saying "energy potential nuclear kinetic" is not the same as saying "kinetic energy") The exact phrase was kinetic energy and that's what they said.
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Re: Picture This B

Post by Shawn C » February 6th, 2015, 12:01 pm

Okay, now I am confused. Is it okay to do what I asked, or no?

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Re: Picture This B

Post by hscmom » February 6th, 2015, 3:08 pm

(Insert usual disclaimer here): Yes, its OK.



That said, never a bad idea to ask the supervisor(s) before you start of any gray areas.
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Re: Picture This B

Post by Skink » February 8th, 2015, 4:45 pm

mom,
Your read on Example 2 is fair. It, just, runs into the old dilemma of whether it's better to err on the side of caution or not because there could be a supervisor whom treats 'kinetic energy' as one unit despite hearing 'energy' at the end by itself. I think the safest way to avoid this problem entirely is to, as often as possible, draw lines for the number of words. That takes no time and can easily transition into the picture itself. So, for kinetic energy, the drawer draws two lines, and, for energy, he or she draws one. If they already are confident that they have a picture for the word, then that wouldn't be needed. And, if they don't, they can put the lines down while thinking up what to draw!

Having said that, I might like to submit this one if for no reason other than I want you to be right. It's more participant-friendly than my 'how I think the rules writers intended it to be' version is!

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setup of Picture This

Post by tkleescioly » February 8th, 2015, 10:27 pm

Hi,

We are wondering the actual setup of this event is. Is it drawing on a white board? Is it drawing on a flip chart? Or is it drawing on pieces of paper? Where do the other teams hide when my team is drawing?

Thanks.

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Re: setup of Picture This

Post by chalker » February 9th, 2015, 5:08 am

tkleescioly wrote:Hi,

We are wondering the actual setup of this event is. Is it drawing on a white board? Is it drawing on a flip chart? Or is it drawing on pieces of paper? Where do the other teams hide when my team is drawing?

Thanks.
The rules explicitly say paper, so there should be paper of some type. Whether it's flip chart or normal size or whatever is going to be up to the individual event supervisor at each tournament. Generally you'll wait in one room with all the other teams and then during your turn move to another room. However there are other variations of this, depending on the resources / rooms available at a given tournament.

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Re: Picture This B

Post by hscmom » February 9th, 2015, 6:14 pm

Shouldn't be a white board because the images are not available for review afterwards if there is some dispute. Should be paper which is kept til scores are finalized.
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Re: Picture This B

Post by mineturtle314 » February 20th, 2015, 4:21 pm

My team practices with whiteboards because it saves paper but at the competition they use paper because it serves as solid evidence just in case an argument surfaces.
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