Fossils B/C

eladrinwizard1
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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby eladrinwizard1 » December 1st, 2014, 5:14 pm

Okay, so for our binder pages, my partner and I were planning to write an outline of the taxonmic hierarchy of each taxa.
So for Phylum Foraminifera, it would be something like:

*Title* Phylum Foraminifera *Title*
[*]Kingdom- Protozoa
[*]Phylum- Foraminifera

... and have it go down higher as the specimens require ID-ing to the genus and such.
So basically, what I'm asking is where does everything stand on the taxonmic hierarchy? Like I know that it goes Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species, but like what about superclass and subclass and other ranks like that? (especially 'clade')

So far, we've decided that it goes:
• Kingdom
• Phylum
• Subphylum
• Class
• Superclass
• Infraclass
• Superorder
• Order (/Class)
• Family
• Genus
• Species
I would just like to point out that Class is above Order, and probably Superorder. I'm also doing Entomology, and every Order on the list is part of the Class Insecta.

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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby eladrinwizard1 » December 1st, 2014, 5:18 pm

Can someone help me distinguish between Platystrophia and Mucrospirifer? Thanks :)
This may not be a good point, as they can overlap, but the thickness of the lines on the shells is on average wider in Platystrophia.

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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby fantasyfan » December 1st, 2014, 5:28 pm

So far, we've decided that it goes:
• Kingdom
• Phylum
• Subphylum
• Class
• Superclass
• Infraclass
• Superorder
• Order (/Class)
• Family
• Genus
• Species
Close, it is:
• Kingdom
• Phylum
• Subphylum
• Superclass
• Class
• Infraclass
• Superorder
• Order
• Family
• Genus
• Species
Cladistic is a field somewhat separate from Linnaean taxonomy, based on derived characters. Clades, for instance dinosaurs, don't have a specific place on the list, but depending on how the clade is defined can occur anywhere. The dinosaur clade is similar to a class in that it contains multiple orders, so I would place that specific clade around class on your list
Looking forward to anatomy, protein, fossils, and optics (NYS trial) this year!

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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby Unome » December 2nd, 2014, 4:24 am

So far, we've decided that it goes:
• Kingdom
• Phylum
• Subphylum
• Class
• Superclass
• Infraclass
• Superorder
• Order (/Class)
• Family
• Genus
• Species
Close, it is:
• Kingdom
• Phylum
• Subphylum
• Superclass
• Class
• Infraclass
• Superorder
• Order
• Family
• Genus
• Species
Cladistic is a field somewhat separate from Linnaean taxonomy, based on derived characters. Clades, for instance dinosaurs, don't have a specific place on the list, but depending on how the clade is defined can occur anywhere. The dinosaur clade is similar to a class in that it contains multiple orders, so I would place that specific clade around class on your list
I've seen a few references to paraphyletic groups. Would they be the same as clades, or are they just groups like protists that don't necessarily have similar genetic sequences?
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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby dunkleosteusly » December 2nd, 2014, 10:02 pm

To answer your question about paraphyletic groups:

Clades are a synonym for "monophyletic" groups, which are to be contrasted with paraphyletic groups. Below is a good diagram explaining the difference:
monophyly_paraphyly.jpg
There are two very common examples of paraphyletic groups: "fish" (in blue) and "reptiles" (in green). Diagram below:
vertebratephylogeny2.png
Evolutionary biologists prefer grouping organisms into monophyletic groups (clades) because this type of grouping is more informative and useful. Monophyletic groups are defined by the species in the clade all sharing a set of characters, or features ("synapomorphies"), that are different from that of the ancestral species. One fantastic example of a monophyletic group is mammals; some unique shared features include having hair, mammary glands, and three middle ear bones. This kind of grouping is informative because by looking at what kind of features a species has, you can place it into a clade AND know which species are most closely related to it.

Unfortunately, a lot of Linnean classification isn't based on cladistics (grouping species into monophyletic groups), so you end up with a lot of paraphyletic groups, such as fish, reptiles, and dinosaurs. A better way to define the groups in this diagram would be to call all those species in the clade "Gnathostomata" (jawed vertebrates) and then the clade for green+birds "Sauropsida." So why do we even use Linnean classification if it's not helpful in clarifying evolutionary relationships? It's just because it's been stuck with us for a while now... eliminating the concept of "fish" and "reptile" would be pretty difficult.

I think the Fossils list tried to balance Linnean classification and cladistics in its organization of the genera. Invertebrate classification (in real life) are just a cladistics mess, but the vertebrates on the list are generally in monophyletic groups.

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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby sunshinez » December 3rd, 2014, 6:10 pm

Would anyone by any chance know how to diffrentiate Genus Hexagonaria vs. Genus Septastraea? (Phylum Cnidaria)
I was looking at some pictures and fossils of each, and the Hexagonaria specimen looked suspiciously like the picture of Septastraea.
If anyone could maybe give me some pointers/characteristics of the 2 that make them different (since they're similar; they're in the same phylum), that'd be great

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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby azuritemalachite » December 6th, 2014, 1:48 pm

Would anyone by any chance know how to diffrentiate Genus Hexagonaria vs. Genus Septastraea? (Phylum Cnidaria)
I was looking at some pictures and fossils of each, and the Hexagonaria specimen looked suspiciously like the picture of Septastraea.
If anyone could maybe give me some pointers/characteristics of the 2 that make them different (since they're similar; they're in the same phylum), that'd be great
We've discussed this earlier... here were some of the links.
This is oddly specific for this early in the year, but does anyone know how to distinguish hexagonaria and septastraea?
Try this: http://petrifiedwoodmuseum.org/SOCorals.htm
I know, it doesn't show much.....I still might not be doing Fossils.....:( I have possible event conflicts :(
This is oddly specific for this early in the year, but does anyone know how to distinguish hexagonaria and septastraea?
Short answer: I've always identified Hexagonaria versus Septastraea through Hexagonaria's thinner and numerous septa. Hexagonaria's calyx (the center cup area) is also shallower. And as others have mentioned, Hexagonaria sometimes comes polished into a decorative "Petoskey Stone."

Longer answer: Hexagonaria and Septastraea are part of two different, major groups of coral: rugose corals and scleratinian corals respectively. These groups are distinguished by the pattern of septal insertion (how their septa are arranged) - see http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/cnidaria/anthozoamm.html and http://www.paleosoc.org/Corals.pdf.
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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby Savage_beast » December 8th, 2014, 2:43 pm

I got put into Fossils, and with our regional competition only about 6 weeks away, I just wanted to reach out for some help. Does anyone have any study tips for this event? (Is a binder good? Are flashcards better?) I really want to place, and I know many of you are masters at this, so I thought I'd ask. PM me or reply if you think you can help! Thank you in advance to everybody!
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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby Unome » December 8th, 2014, 3:53 pm

I got put into Fossils, and with our regional competition only about 6 weeks away, I just wanted to reach out for some help. Does anyone have any study tips for this event? (Is a binder good? Are flashcards better?) I really want to place, and I know many of you are masters at this, so I thought I'd ask. PM me or reply if you think you can help! Thank you in advance to everybody!
In 6 weeks you can probably make a good binder. Just put in pictures and info for every classification on the fossil list (fossils, not living images :mrgreen: ) and a few pages on everything else mentioned on the fossil list and rules sheet (also the list and sheet themselves are very helpful).
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Re: Fossils B/C

Postby Savage_beast » December 8th, 2014, 6:16 pm

I got put into Fossils, and with our regional competition only about 6 weeks away, I just wanted to reach out for some help. Does anyone have any study tips for this event? (Is a binder good? Are flashcards better?) I really want to place, and I know many of you are masters at this, so I thought I'd ask. PM me or reply if you think you can help! Thank you in advance to everybody!
In 6 weeks you can probably make a good binder. Just put in pictures and info for every classification on the fossil list (fossils, not living images :mrgreen: ) and a few pages on everything else mentioned on the fossil list and rules sheet (also the list and sheet themselves are very helpful).
Thank you so much! This will definitely help me going forward! :D
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