Air Trajectory B/C

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bernard
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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by bernard » February 23rd, 2015, 9:12 pm

Argus wrote:So the rules state that "making contact with the inside bottom surface is worth an additional 100 points." If the projectile hits the inside wall of the bucket and then the bottom do you still get the additional 100 points? So a total of 200 bonus points from that bucket shot. I know this is not the place for official responces and I am in the process of submitting a FAQ but the captcha doesn't work. Also that is almost exactly word for word what I am trying to submit. I just want to see how other people interpret it. Thanks.
From what you have quoted, it seems like they do not specify that the projectile must make its initial contact with the inside bottom surface to get the additional 100 points. Therefore, from my understanding, as long as it touches the bottom of the bucket, you would get the points. Here is a similar FAQ though dealing with a different part of the rule.

What is the FAQ you are trying to submit? If the captcha continues not to work for you, I would be happy to submit the question for you.
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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by chinesesushi » February 23rd, 2015, 9:14 pm

Argus wrote:So the rules state that "making contact with the inside bottom surface is worth an additional 100 points." If the projectile hits the inside wall of the bucket and then the bottom do you still get the additional 100 points? So a total of 200 bonus points from that bucket shot. I know this is not the place for official responces and I am in the process of submitting a FAQ but the captcha doesn't work. Also that is almost exactly word for word what I am trying to submit. I just want to see how other people interpret it. Thanks.
Yes, I believe that most if not all event supervisors should count that as +200 points. I do not believe the rules specifically state that it has to hit the bottom first.
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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by chalker » February 24th, 2015, 5:32 am

bernard wrote:
Argus wrote:So the rules state that "making contact with the inside bottom surface is worth an additional 100 points." If the projectile hits the inside wall of the bucket and then the bottom do you still get the additional 100 points? So a total of 200 bonus points from that bucket shot. I know this is not the place for official responces and I am in the process of submitting a FAQ but the captcha doesn't work. Also that is almost exactly word for word what I am trying to submit. I just want to see how other people interpret it. Thanks.
From what you have quoted, it seems like they do not specify that the projectile must make its initial contact with the inside bottom surface to get the additional 100 points. Therefore, from my understanding, as long as it touches the bottom of the bucket, you would get the points. Here is a similar FAQ though dealing with a different part of the rule.

What is the FAQ you are trying to submit? If the captcha continues not to work for you, I would be happy to submit the question for you.

I would concur, although as always this isn't the place for official comments / clarifications. We are looking into fixing the CAPTCHA.

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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by Friedoyster3 » February 24th, 2015, 6:18 am

GoldenKnight1 wrote:
iwonder wrote:
joeyjoejoe wrote:Also, this is going to sound weird but is anybody seeing an optimal distance coming from some angle other than 45 degrees??
We get a maximal flight at around 35 degrees. Weird!
YES! SCIENCE!
In a vacuum the ideal angle to launch a projectile at is 45 degrees, yes. In air, the angle shallows out a bit, because there is a acceleration in the X direction, namely drag. I would guess if you tried it with a golf ball of similar size you'd see the launch angle increase a hair because they have less wind resistance (that's why their dimpled).

I'm sure there're other reasons why it's shallower for your launcher, 35 degrees sounds almost too shallow for that, and I don't feel like doing the differential equation to calculate the actual numbers, but that's a pretty cool observation in my book.
Another factor that might not make it 45deg is the initial height the projectile leaves your device. I have seen a device that launches the ball at 0deg but from 1m up which wouldn't work if you just used the range equation.
Well that depends which range equation you use. There is a way to factor in an initial height, it's just ugly as all get-out
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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by joeyjoejoe » February 24th, 2015, 1:43 pm

Regarding the bucket shot, if you get closer than 500mm to either of the targets on your first attempt, you can request a bucket shot. The rules mention that "After impound THE location and size of the bucket must be announced.." which implies only one bucket/location. So does this mean that, if a team gets closer than 500mm on the first shot at both of the targets (shots one and three), that they get to shoot at the same bucket twice for their second and fourth shot?

Also, this question has been asked but I thought I'd ask it again in light of all of the competitions that have occurred:
Is your understanding that the following are the only options for shots.

Close Close Far Far
Close Close Far bucket
Close Bucket Far Far
Close Bucket Far Bucket

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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by bernard » February 24th, 2015, 2:18 pm

joeyjoejoe wrote:Regarding the bucket shot, if you get closer than 500mm to either of the targets on your first attempt, you can request a bucket shot. The rules mention that "After impound THE location and size of the bucket must be announced.." which implies only one bucket/location. Sothis mean that, if a team gets closer than 500mm on the first shot at both of the targets (shots one and three), that they get to shoot at the same bucket twice for their second and fourth shot?

Also, this question has been asked but I thought I'd ask it again in light of all of the competitions that have occurred:
Is your understanding that the following are the only options for shots.

Close Close Far Far
Close Close Far bucket
Close Bucket Far Far
Close Bucket Far Bucket
At the Wright State Invitational, there was only one location for the bucket. At all of the invitationals I have attended so far, we have been allowed to pick which targets we want to aim for at each launch (which seems to be allowed by 4.g.). If you were to be close enough for both the close target and far targets and wanted to attempt a bucket shot, I would recommend doing close-far-bucket-bucket so you can finely adjust your last shot in the case your first bucket attempt doesn't work well.
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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by bernard » February 24th, 2015, 2:33 pm

bernard wrote:
joeyjoejoe wrote:Regarding the bucket shot, if you get closer than 500mm to either of the targets on your first attempt, you can request a bucket shot. The rules mention that "After impound THE location and size of the bucket must be announced.." which implies only one bucket/location. Sothis mean that, if a team gets closer than 500mm on the first shot at both of the targets (shots one and three), that they get to shoot at the same bucket twice for their second and fourth shot?

Also, this question has been asked but I thought I'd ask it again in light of all of the competitions that have occurred:
Is your understanding that the following are the only options for shots.

Close Close Far Far
Close Close Far bucket
Close Bucket Far Far
Close Bucket Far Bucket
At the Wright State Invitational, there was only one location for the bucket. At all of the invitationals I have attended so far, we have been allowed to pick which targets we want to aim for at each launch (which seems to be allowed by 4.g.). If you were to be close enough for both the close target and far targets and wanted to attempt a bucket shot, I would recommendclose-far-bucket-bucket so you can finely adjust your last shot in the case your first bucket attempt n't work well.
Here is a relevant FAQ. Thanks to actionpotential for pointing it out.
Science Olympiad wrote:Can a team take one shot each for both targets and then decide which target it takes a second shot and/or take a bucket shot (if allowed by 4.i)? (section: 4 / paragraph: g / line: 1)
Competitors may choose either target for their first shot. They may then choose to take their second shot at the same target or their first shot at the other target. If they qualify to take a bucket shot after their first shot at a particular target, they must ask for the bucket when they wish to take the second shot at that target.
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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by chalker » February 24th, 2015, 3:51 pm

chalker wrote: We are looking into fixing the CAPTCHA.
Should be working for everyone now.

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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by ImNotSmart » February 24th, 2015, 4:54 pm

bernard wrote:
ImNotSmart wrote:
bernard wrote: The hose of my pump fit snugly into the brass fitting. If your hose doesn't fit snugly its probably because you have the wrong size of brass fitting (it would probably be pretty far off from the size you want since I don't think most stores sell brass fittings in small increments of sizes but the most common ones), your hose is damaged from removing it without loosening it (which could be fixed by adding some tape to the brass barb, but not too much), or your head isn't tightened (my bike pump hose's tightening switch is actually the opposite of most bike pumps in which orientation of the switch is locked/unlocked and it tok me a while to figure out.

Does your ball launch at all? If so, how far down the mass fall before the ball launches?

My trigger was made from just 2 eye hooks and a cotter pin with a long string attached. I had a wire attached nicely around my bike pump handle and the pin went through a loop in the handle. The two eye hooks held up the cotter pin. If you try this approach, make sure your wire attached to the bike pump handle will always be the same length to maintain consistent drop heights.
To be honest I just want to be sure I'll be able to get the device to work before I spend time gathering the materials. The bike pump I currently have does not seem like it will be capable of producing enough pressure to launch the ball far enough. Also, how did you change the distance your device launched the ball? Did you angle the barrel and if so how? Would it be possible to change the height at which the pump handle is dropped?
How tall is your bike pump when it is fully extended? Mine is a little over 1 meter when fully extended but I have it at about 90cm tall when I launch because I have a mass on top. With a shorter bike pump, you'll want a shorter barrel (I hope this is intuitive, if not I can explain why). Do you feel any air leaking as the mass falls? If so, you'll want to add short strips of tape in the same way I explained before.
I think mine's about 0.75 meters when fully extended. How wide is your pump? I think that my pump may not be producing enough air pressure because it is not wide enough. I dont think I feel any air leaking, so the width may be the problem. How do you change how far your device fires? What "setting" do you use to have it launch 8 meters? Also, sorry if this is too much to ask, but I'm still not sure if I understand how your trigger works. Could you possibly upload a picture of the trigger on your device? Thanks for everything! You've given me a lot more insight on the project!

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Re: Air Trajectory B/C

Post by Argus » February 24th, 2015, 5:08 pm

chalker wrote:
chalker wrote: We are looking into fixing the CAPTCHA.
Should be working for everyone now.
Its working for me. I sent in the FAQ.

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