Meaning of Rules

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Meaning of Rules

Postby goodcheer » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:19 pm

Is anyone else having trouble understanding exactly what 4.i means? Does the first "or" need to be changed to "and?" The phrase "completes a scoreable transfer" is confusing me. Does it mean the competitor completes it by touching it or is it referring to a legitimate transfer? The first "or" separates the first phrase from the second; the second phrase mentioning an adjustment being made, I suppose by touching the device. As it reads now, if a competitor completes a scoreable transfer, it will not count for points. Very awkward wording. I am guessing it was intending to say, "If a competitor makes an adjustment....neither the transfer nor the golf ball will count for points."

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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby Flavorflav » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:28 pm

"If the competitor completes a transfer," not "If the device completes a transfer." This is describing what happens in the event of a touch.

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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby XJcwolfyX » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:29 am

Hi! After years of doing this event, I've learned something very important. You should not read into the rules too carefully. Yes, it is important to read the rules thoroughly and have a complete and total understanding of them, but when you start nitpicking the small technical words or grammar of the rules that conflict with your device, it becomes a problem. You need to look at the rules, and think of what they writers were thinking. Obviously, they did not mean that you don't get points for completing transfers. If rules are completely unclear, then you should submit an FAQ/Clarification. But finding small words and manipulating them to fit your device has never worked out (not saying you're doing this, just giving advice).
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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby hexagonaria » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:37 pm

I think it'd be cool if we tried to limit rule discussion to this thread. I was hoping to get some design inspiration from the design thread, but it's mostly just everyone trying to demystify what the rules mean :lol: :roll:
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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby phil9047 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:14 am

4.b states "An ETS can receive points only if: 1) it is initiated by the process of a golf ball moving into the scoring jug (cannot be counted as an energy form)"
Does that mean the golf ball's movement cannot be counted as an energy form (mechanical energy)?
Sine functions are quite odd, to be honest.

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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby kovai2000 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:53 pm

Did anyone understand this differently?
If I use one single mechanism to move the golf balls one by one and have each one trigger an ETS that follows all the rules in 4.b, will it violate any rules? There is a statement in 4 that states "A single action or component must contribute to only one scoreable transfer". Does this apply to the ETS or apply to lifting golf balls also?

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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby chalker » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:09 am

kovai2000 wrote:Did anyone understand this differently?
If I use one single mechanism to move the golf balls one by one and have each one trigger an ETS that follows all the rules in 4.b, will it violate any rules? There is a statement in 4 that states "A single action or component must contribute to only one scoreable transfer". Does this apply to the ETS or apply to lifting golf balls also?


There is a FAQ that speaks to this: http://soinc.org/node/1525

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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby SWAnG » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:00 am

I think kovai2000 is asking whether reusing a mechanism to lift the ball can be considered as NOT a part of the ETS. I personally think this is allowed, in the rules it states that the ETS "causes the next golf ball to move toward and into a scoring jug". So, as long as the ETS is initiated by the process of the golf ball moving into the jug, then causes the next ball to move toward and into a scoring jug, it is scoreable. Basically, reusing a component to lift the golf ball into the scoring jug after an ETS seems legal as it is what "moves the golf ball toward and into a scoring jug". I suggest sending an FAQ on this, I did too; they are more likely to answer this question that way.

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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby olynewbie » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:26 am

I'm a little confused about the meaning of "hazardous" in context.
Will I be allowed to use chemicals such as Potassium hydroxide and Manganese oxide?

Thanks!

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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby bernard » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:41 am

olynewbie wrote:I'm a little confused about the meaning of "hazardous" in context.
Will I be allowed to use chemicals such as Potassium hydroxide and Manganese oxide?

Thanks!

From what I've seen in FAQs, whether or not a substance is "hazardous" will be up to each event supervisor, which could vary at tournaments. Looking at the NFPA 704 for the substances you mentioned could help you determine whether a substance would be safe to use. Potassium hydroxide is a 3 for heath meaning it can cause serious injury so I would avoid using it.
Science Olympiad wrote:Under the rules for mission possible it states, "hazardous liquids...and unsafe chemical handling will not be permitted. What designates a liquid as hazardous or a chemical as unsafe? (section: 3 / paragraph: i / line: 1-2)
That is up to the individual event supervisor to determine. It will be based upon common standards and processes, such as those found in a typical chemistry lab. In general, when in doubt, err on the side of caution.
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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby blakinator8 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:13 pm

A new rules clarification has been posted for mission (in comic cans, for some reason?)

Mission Possible 3.g. should read "Electrical components may be used in the device, but no computers or integrated circuits are allowed except an unmodified commercially sold buzzer may be used in the final task. (3/3/15)

Mission Possible 4. A jug is defined as any plastic beverage container that has sides that are at least 10cm high. There is no requirement that the jug/container has or had a handle on it. (3/3/15)
Picture This: A TEAM OF: 3. should read A TEAM OF UP TO: 3. (10/29/14)




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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby bernard » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:32 pm

FAQs/clarifications are being synced, so check back tonight for any changes.
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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby goodcheer » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:27 pm

bernard wrote:FAQs/clarifications are being synced, so check back tonight for any changes.



The clarification about the jug not requiring a handle should change some of the FAQs which mention the jug had to have a handle. Does that mean a bottle will be accepted?

For example: http://soinc.org/node/1585

and: http://soinc.org/node/1584

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bernard
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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby bernard » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:42 pm

goodcheer wrote:
bernard wrote:FAQs/clarifications are being synced, so check back tonight for any changes.



The clarification about the jug not requiring a handle should change some of the FAQs which mention the jug had to have a handle. Does that mean a bottle will be accepted?

For example: http://soinc.org/node/1585

and: http://soinc.org/node/1584

Yes.
"One of the ways that I believe people express their appreciation to the rest of humanity is to make something wonderful and put it out there."

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Re: Meaning of Rules

Postby goodcheer » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:07 pm

bernard wrote:
goodcheer wrote:
bernard wrote:FAQs/clarifications are being synced, so check back tonight for any changes.



The clarification about the jug not requiring a handle should change some of the FAQs which mention the jug had to have a handle. Does that mean a bottle will be accepted?

For example: http://soinc.org/node/1585

and: http://soinc.org/node/1584

Yes.


Thank you. That should help some of the competitors. Thanks to all those who work on these rules issues: not an easy task.


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