It's About Time C

genius123
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Re: It's About Time C

Post by genius123 » December 4th, 2015, 4:26 pm

Hi everyone! I'm really nervous about the test section because that's what my partner & I messed up on last year. I just have a few questions

1) Is UDT the same thing as UTC? Also what does UDT stand for?
2) What are some motion equations that we should know?

Thanks so much!

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Re: It's About Time C

Post by chalker » December 4th, 2015, 5:17 pm

genius123 wrote: 1) Is UDT the same thing as UTC? Also what does UDT stand for?
I don't think UDT is an official thing. It appears someone created a page called "Universal Decimal Time" at http://www.bobulous.org.uk/udt/ , but that is the only reference I could find to it online.

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Re: It's About Time C

Post by Phys1cs » December 4th, 2015, 6:04 pm

genius123 wrote:Hi everyone! I'm really nervous about the test section because that's what my partner & I messed up on last year. I just have a few questions

2) What are some motion equations that we should know?

Thanks so much!
A starting place would be the basic physics level kinematics-

x=(1/2)at^2+vot+xo
v^2=v0^2+2a(x-xo)

There are some other ones, but those can get you pretty far when it comes to things dropping or accelerating or in general moving when not in a circle

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Re: It's About Time C

Post by jkang97 » February 8th, 2016, 9:05 pm

chalker wrote:
genius123 wrote: 1) Is UDT the same thing as UTC? Also what does UDT stand for?
I don't think UDT is an official thing. It appears someone created a page called "Universal Decimal Time" at http://www.bobulous.org.uk/udt/ , but that is the only reference I could find to it online.
I can confirm that UDT isn't actually a thing (according to the nationals proctor)
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Re: It's About Time C

Post by TrueshotBarrage » February 21st, 2016, 6:45 pm

Thanks for the replies on the idea of implementing an escapement. We thought about it for a while but decided against it (we would have needed to redesign an entirely new clock). However, the information from these threads in general helped tons and I am happy to say we got 1st at our regionals with our trials being only 1.4 seconds off combined (2nd trial was exact).

Now that we are headed to state, I have some new time and questions. Even though our trials were pretty sound, the test portion was discouraging. We found our Achilles tendon was the trivia, considering more than 60% of the questions consisted of knowing random facts (some not even about time). Is there a good way to study for these types of questions? We did our reading on the wiki/Wikipedia/etc but generally these are formulae, how things work, etc. and not usually stuff like when the theory of relativity was publicized.

Another problem we noticed was variance of the period of our pendulum, which meant that our pendulum's length (from the pivot to the mass) was not constant. Any suggestions would be awesome.

We trigger our device by holding the pendulum at a certain angle then releasing it when the time starts. Obviously this is not always accurate and is prone to human errors. Anyone have good ideas for a triggering mechanism?

Thanks anyone in advance.
2015 Regionals
It's About Time - 3rd
Compound Machines - 1st
2015 States
Bridge Building - 3rd

2016 Regionals
It's About Time - 1st
Air Trajectory - 1st

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Re: It's About Time C

Post by jkang97 » February 21st, 2016, 9:11 pm

TrueshotBarrage wrote:Thanks for the replies on the idea of implementing an escapement. We thought about it for a while but decided against it (we would have needed to redesign an entirely new clock). However, the information from these threads in general helped tons and I am happy to say we got 1st at our regionals with our trials being only 1.4 seconds off combined (2nd trial was exact).

Now that we are headed to state, I have some new time and questions. Even though our trials were pretty sound, the test portion was discouraging. We found our Achilles tendon was the trivia, considering more than 60% of the questions consisted of knowing random facts (some not even about time). Is there a good way to study for these types of questions? We did our reading on the wiki/Wikipedia/etc but generally these are formulae, how things work, etc. and not usually stuff like when the theory of relativity was publicized.

Another problem we noticed was variance of the period of our pendulum, which meant that our pendulum's length (from the pivot to the mass) was not constant. Any suggestions would be awesome.

We trigger our device by holding the pendulum at a certain angle then releasing it when the time starts. Obviously this is not always accurate and is prone to human errors. Anyone have good ideas for a triggering mechanism?

Thanks anyone in advance.
To be honest, the test section is what most teams struggle with, as most nationally competitive teams manage to get around 45+ points on the device, thus making that portion of the event sort of irrelevant. Other than that, the best way to improve your binder is to take tests. This is how I practiced and made my binder last year. By taking tests, not only can you see what is missing from your binder, but you can see the general trends that appear for topics on tests. Now that there are actually defined topics on the rules, this process should be much easier. Another recommendation for the binder is looking at the Wikipedia pages for major topics, such as "Clocks," "Calendars," "Time," etc. Although you can technically just print these out and stick them in your binder, it would be a lot more beneficial if you actually spent the time to read through these articles and understand them. However, this is not to deemphasize the importance of the binder: you have one, use it! As a proctor, I've seen way too many teams struggle in this event as they didn't even prepare a binder. You can also go through all of the hyperlinks and related links on the articles in order to get as much information about the various topics as well. In general, I'd say that HyperPhysics and Wikipedia are the two most helpful online resources for this event, and that taking tests is the most valuable experience overall. The forum in fact has a lot of these tests that can be used, as well as helpful resources that I in fact used as my binder when I was first starting out in this event.

As for the device, rather than just going with the equation T = 2pi*sqrt(L/g) for our pendulum, we took data for each individual swing, resulting in large data tables that had the time values in relation to swing. By running countless trials of data collection, we were able to get an extremely accurate device (0.1 seconds off on 4/5 trials, perfect on one trial at the nationals tournament), and this way you can avoid doing any calculations. There will also be variance in the period of your pendulum as it does not follow perfect simple harmonic motion, but loses energy over time, as well as can have 3-D motion (making ovals with its path) rather than 2-D. For the trigger mechanism, having some sort of built-in location (such as a bar) to keep the starting position constant can help a lot.
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Re: It's About Time C

Post by genius123 » March 8th, 2016, 3:58 pm

jkang97 wrote:
chalker wrote:
genius123 wrote: 1) Is UDT the same thing as UTC? Also what does UDT stand for?
I don't think UDT is an official thing. It appears someone created a page called "Universal Decimal Time" at http://www.bobulous.org.uk/udt/ , but that is the only reference I could find to it online.
I can confirm that UDT isn't actually a thing (according to the nationals proctor)
I was at NJ states today and there was a question about UDT on the test. However, I don't think I can appeal because it says in the rule that we should know UDT. But if it doesn't exist, then it's really unfair that they're testing us on it... Does anyone know what I should do?

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Re: It's About Time C

Post by chalker » March 8th, 2016, 4:20 pm

genius123 wrote: I was at NJ states today and there was a question about UDT on the test. However, I don't think I can appeal because it says in the rule that we should know UDT. But if it doesn't exist, then it's really unfair that they're testing us on it... Does anyone know what I should do?
Not sure what you mean by 'it says in the rule that we should know UDT'. Regardless, your coach should know how to file an appeal with the tournament director.

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Re: It's About Time C

Post by genius123 » March 8th, 2016, 4:29 pm

chalker wrote:
genius123 wrote: I was at NJ states today and there was a question about UDT on the test. However, I don't think I can appeal because it says in the rule that we should know UDT. But if it doesn't exist, then it's really unfair that they're testing us on it... Does anyone know what I should do?
Not sure what you mean by 'it says in the rule that we should know UDT'. Regardless, your coach should know how to file an appeal with the tournament director.
Well in section 4.j.v of the rules, it says that the test needs to consist of questions about time standards (eg. UDT) so we can't file an appeal since technically they didn't break any rules. But I don't think UDT exists and I just assumed that the test proctors would realize that and not test on UDT.

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Re: It's About Time C

Post by jkang » March 10th, 2016, 7:33 am

genius123 wrote:
chalker wrote:
genius123 wrote: I was at NJ states today and there was a question about UDT on the test. However, I don't think I can appeal because it says in the rule that we should know UDT. But if it doesn't exist, then it's really unfair that they're testing us on it... Does anyone know what I should do?
Not sure what you mean by 'it says in the rule that we should know UDT'. Regardless, your coach should know how to file an appeal with the tournament director.
Well in section 4.j.v of the rules, it says that the test needs to consist of questions about time standards (eg. UDT) so we can't file an appeal since technically they didn't break any rules. But I don't think UDT exists and I just assumed that the test proctors would realize that and not test on UDT.
That was a typo because the rules committee didn't properly record what suggestions the national proctor gave them for topics. Thus UDT was added to the rules as a possible topic. although it isn't actually a thing. Kinda dumb but it's a problem with the Science Olympiad organization in general rather than just one proctor or tournament in my opinion.
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