Begginer Plane Advice

bjt4888
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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby bjt4888 » February 19th, 2016, 6:07 pm

AstroJens,

The picture of your airplane indicates a wing chord of 8 cm. Hopefully, this is not the airplane you intend to use in competition as the rules require a maximum wing chord of 6 cm. Congrats on your efforts to date. I will second the recommendation of buying the Freedom Flight Models kit. Reading the instructions carefully before starting construction and building accurately will produce a competitive result.

Brian T.
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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby Bazinga+ » February 19th, 2016, 7:52 pm

Concerning the above, a good state will have times between three to four minutes with the bonus. That should guarantee a medal.
I really doubt very many states will have times that high. Last year top 10 at nationals were barely over 4 minutes. This year the size of the plane is much smaller so times should be generally lower, but the times really depend on the state. Some states will have top 6 all over 2:30 and some states will have top 6 all under 2:30. Also keep in mind that the wing bonus is not a necessity for states/nationals. Some of the best planes at nationals last year didn't go for the bonus since it is debatable whether it's worth it.
Innovation =/= success

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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby jander14indoor » February 19th, 2016, 9:53 pm

If you are new and have limited time, don't even worry about the bonus. Work on a 2 minute plus plane FIRST.

And yes, the keys to getting any plane that meets the rules and is close to (preferably just barely above) minimum weight is to get the trim right and then match the propeller to the rubber. Frankly, a properly trimmed plane that's fully wound with any reasonable rubber and prop combination should get you over a minute, likely a minute and a half. Then its hard work match prop and rubber to get the high times.

Beginners can make very fine starts without a kit (though a local mentor helps a lot there), but your situation is combining beginner with limited local help and limited time. As much as I hate to recommend specific kits, Freedom Flight's book would be the deciding point to me among the many fine kits available.

And until the kit arrives, study this forum, the wiki, last years WS forum, etc.

Jeff Anderson
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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby AstroJens » February 19th, 2016, 10:30 pm

If you are new and have limited time, don't even worry about the bonus. Work on a 2 minute plus plane FIRST.

And yes, the keys to getting any plane that meets the rules and is close to (preferably just barely above) minimum weight is to get the trim right and then match the propeller to the rubber. Frankly, a properly trimmed plane that's fully wound with any reasonable rubber and prop combination should get you over a minute, likely a minute and a half. Then its hard work match prop and rubber to get the high times.

Beginners can make very fine starts without a kit (though a local mentor helps a lot there), but your situation is combining beginner with limited local help and limited time. As much as I hate to recommend specific kits, Freedom Flight's book would be the deciding point to me among the many fine kits available.

And until the kit arrives, study this forum, the wiki, last years WS forum, etc.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

What do you mean by matching the propeller to the rubber? Is there a specific way to do this? I know it's been mentioned a couple times before.

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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby torqueburner » February 20th, 2016, 2:00 pm


What do you mean by matching the propeller to the rubber? Is there a specific way to do this? I know it's been mentioned a couple times before.
What Jeff means is that a given plane/prop combination will have a particular rubber width that will give you the longest flights, everything else being equal. There are some hints that the width you are currently using is not the best. For example, if the plane runs out of winds before descending all the way to the floor, that usually means that narrower rubber would be better. If the plane has to be wound to a very high torque to reach the ceiling, and then lands with lots of winds left, that probably means that wider rubber would be better. But a stopwatch is the best indicator. Wind the motor so that the plane climbs up to just below the ceiling, and time the flight. Do the same for narrower rubber, and wider rubber, and see if one of those is better. If so, change the width a little more in that direction until you find the optimum. Often just a few thousandths will make a substantial difference.

Dave D.

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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby AstroJens » February 20th, 2016, 4:44 pm


What do you mean by matching the propeller to the rubber? Is there a specific way to do this? I know it's been mentioned a couple times before.
What Jeff means is that a given plane/prop combination will have a particular rubber width that will give you the longest flights, everything else being equal. There are some hints that the width you are currently using is not the best. For example, if the plane runs out of winds before descending all the way to the floor, that usually means that narrower rubber would be better. If the plane has to be wound to a very high torque to reach the ceiling, and then lands with lots of winds left, that probably means that wider rubber would be better. But a stopwatch is the best indicator. Wind the motor so that the plane climbs up to just below the ceiling, and time the flight. Do the same for narrower rubber, and wider rubber, and see if one of those is better. If so, change the width a little more in that direction until you find the optimum. Often just a few thousandths will make a substantial difference.

Dave D.
I had no clue about that, thank you!

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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby jander14indoor » February 20th, 2016, 7:56 pm

I reread your original post. Missed the rubber winding info. You DEFINITELY need better rubber before you mess much with worrying about matching prop to rubber. For these planes you should be talking in the order of 1000 to 1500 turns, not 200. All you can do till then is learn to trim.

Once you get the rubber, FINISH TRIMMING THE PLANE for a good flight without worrying too much about that prop/rubber match. You might start at lower winds and work up. But even low winds will need 500-800 turns to get into the steady flight stage. Once you have that, up the turns till you get to the ceiling. Play with trim to maximize flight time with that first. That will get you well placed at many regionals and some states.

THEN start with the prop rubber matching.

Oh, and what makes the prop rubber matching fun. Not all props are equal. There is probably a 'best' and many close to 'best' props for your plane. That's where you have to experiment LOTS to get those magic times you hear about.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby retired1 » February 21st, 2016, 11:35 am

Based on last year, Florida will need more than 2 min to medal. Our team won the regional against poor competition, with 1:39 and that was with 3 bouts with roof beams and finally a large net. It was the first time they had flown in a real gym and over compensated on wing incidence. My guess is 3 min to win and over 2:30 for 2nd and 3rd.

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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby AstroJens » February 21st, 2016, 12:39 pm

Based on last year, Florida will need more than 2 min to medal. Our team won the regional against poor competition, with 1:39 and that was with 3 bouts with roof beams and finally a large net. It was the first time they had flown in a real gym and over compensated on wing incidence. My guess is 3 min to win and over 2:30 for 2nd and 3rd.
That gives me some goals to achieve thank you! The problem for my regional is that they cancelled Wright Stuff (I guess they didn't have the proper environment to test it), however they do have Wright Stuff at States. So I'm going in fresh. So that's a slight disadvantage.

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Re: Begginer Plane Advice

Postby retired1 » February 21st, 2016, 1:20 pm

Who's plan or kit are you using?


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