Appeal to Nationals on State decision

[sciolyfan]

Does anyone know if there is an appeals process to appeal a state's decision on team ranking?

Thanks
sciolyfan

[zyzzyva980]

(Standard disclaimer: scioly.org and I are not affiliated with national SO in any way.)

I'm not sure there's an official appeals process, but it doesn't particularly matter if there's an official process or not. Nationals is not going to overturn a state's decision. I've never seen it happen before, and it probably won't happen in your case, either.

Think of it like how the United States government is set up. You have the federal government, of course, but you also have the state governments, and those state governments are free to create their own laws and govern pretty much however they like. It would take a gross violation for the federal government to step in.

In the same way, it would take an extreme, extreme violation for the national organization to step in and reverse a state's decision, and you would need 110%, without-a-doubt proof that there was gross misconduct on the state's behalf. Even then I'm not sure they'd change the decision, because, as I said, I've never seen this happen and I don't expect it to happen.

chalker will be on this thread with his take in 3... 2...

[Bazinga+]

My view on this is that nationals has very little if no power over a state's decision, which can be seen through that teams register to science Olympiad through their state, not nationals. And just to point out, this is not the first time this has happened; an unfair decision was made by NYS two years ago, and despite appeals and all, the only thing we were able to do was make sure it would not happen to any other team in the future, but the decision by the state was final. I know it's unfortunate, but life goes on.

[abby1kanobe]

Details would help but I do agree from experience the national board does not like to interfere with the state. Gross negligence would have to have occurred.

[soyuppy]

After State Results are announced/posted, there's a 1 hour time window that allow coach to challenge and appeal to the score. That's the only time that you can appeal. Once that time is passed, the Results are final

[samlan16]

After State Results are announced/posted, there's a 1 hour time window that allow coach to challenge and appeal to the score. That's the only time that you can appeal. Once that time is passed, the Results are final

For most states, it's one hour. Some, like Georgia, allow 48 hours to appeal because there is a formal, written process to do so.

[sciolyfan]

@abby1kanobe - does allowing a team to download their TSL for mission possible from their cell phone and defending them saying there is nothing in the rule that requires them to have it on paper qualify as gross negligence? there is a state that will go unnamed just did that!

[EastStroudsburg13]

In the interest of maintaining an open discussion, I'm going to guess that the state you're referring to is North Carolina.

But by the sound of your grievance, it's definitely not egregious enough to warrant the intervening of the national committee. Maybe it can be something brought up in future iterations of the rules, but there have been much bigger issues in the past that were not retroactively changed.

[samlan16]

@abby1kanobe - does allowing a team to download their TSL for mission possible from their cell phone and defending them saying there is nothing in the rule that requires them to have it on paper qualify as gross negligence? there is a state that will go unnamed just did that!

Hmm, that's kind of sticky. I will give my two cents on this, referencing the General Rules.

General Rule 1 says that any action not explicitly prohibited in the rules is allowed, which is what the proctor was referencing when permitting that team to do so. However, General Rule 2 says that teams cannot get external assistance, meaning their phones must be off.

My commentary on this issue: Mission Possible does not require external assistance to operate the device, so it would be ludicrous if they were getting some. If the team was using their cell phone to communicate with, say, a coach, you would need to get proof that they were doing so if you wanted to challenge. However, if they were not doing so, the proctor was okay with it, and they did not have their phone out for the remainder of the event, then General Rule 1 would reign supreme and your appeal would fail. As I said, it would be pointless to get outside help on MP, so the proctor was likely okay with them having their phones.

As was said earlier, there may not be much for you to do at this point because, given that it's Wednesday, your state's appeal window has likely closed by now, and the national committee getting involved is unheard of, you can't appeal. Even if you finagled your way through and tried to appeal now, the incident would very likely be considered fait accompli, especially if you do not have evidence.

It is unfortunate that a team did something you disagree with, but you're not likely to get anything out of protesting it.

[abby1kanobe]

I gotta agree with eaststraudsbourg13 on this. From a rules stand point all the rules say, correct if i'm wrong, is that the student needs to submit a TSL at impound OR at event check in. It must be legible, neat and accurate. I see nowhere that you cannot show it in electronic format. Even if the TSL is not submitted on time(they went and got the electronic device) I see only a 25 point penalty as outlined in scoring.

25 points if the TSL is on time as designated by the tournament director

Sooooo would a 25 point penalty dropped them by 4 places in rankings???? As your state scoring show(assuming we are talking NC) it would take a 4 point hit to knock the 2nd place team down to third based on the second tie breaker of most 2nd places. If their device was a top 4 device I would assume there would be a substantial drop off in scores from places 5-10. That's just an assumption from seeing scores all over the place.