Adult assistance

Locked
ft55555
Member
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: December 9th, 2015, 9:11 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Adult assistance

Post by ft55555 »

How much assistance are adults allowed to provide in the design of the launch device?
User avatar
zyzzyva980
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 1539
Joined: November 18th, 2009, 12:59 pm
Division: Grad
State: IA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Re: Adult assistance

Post by zyzzyva980 »

Technically, none (outside of the coach doing their typical coaching). The device should be designed and built entirely by the students. Side note: Obviously, if you're going to use dangerous machinery to help construct your device, adults should be present and assisting to make sure that nothing bad happens.

On the other hand, SO is not an ideal world and there are teams that do receive too much help from adults. I think it's fine if an adult helps to guide you in the design of your device (i.e., points out potential flaws, suggests improvements), but the end result should primarily be the design of the student. Adults shouldn't be laying out blueprints for the kids or anything like that.
Olathe North HS, 2011-2013 | National Runner-Up, Sounds of Music (2012)
Never lose the joy of competing in the pursuit of winning

Resources
Site Help: FAQ & IRC
Event Help: [wiki][/wiki] & Image Gallery
Social Networks: scioly.org on Facebook & Twitter
syo_astro
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 620
Joined: December 3rd, 2011, 9:45 pm
Division: Grad
State: NY
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 20 times
Contact:

Re: Adult assistance

Post by syo_astro »

I agree very much. It's important to note that adults can give tips. I have done very few building events, but I would say that the one where the teacher helped me more was a great example of what should happen. He was a teacher and coach, and he basically let me lead most of the way unless the tool I needed I wasn't sure how to use, dangers, etc. Not only did I appreciate the immense help, but I learned A LOT about what it takes to construct something because of all the work I had to put in. I definitely have to say that if someone else built it for me I wouldn't have learned as much, and I would've lost out a lot on my enjoyment of the process (even if it took many, many hours...but worth it).
B: Crave the Wave, Environmental Chemistry, Robo-Cross, Meteo, Phys Sci Lab, Solar System, DyPlan (E and V), Shock Value
C: Microbe Mission, DyPlan (Fresh Waters), Fermi Questions, GeoMaps, Grav Vehicle, Scrambler, Rocks, Astro
Grad: Writing Tests/Supervising (NY/MI)
Skink
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 948
Joined: February 8th, 2009, 12:23 pm
Division: C
State: IL
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Adult assistance

Post by Skink »

Scaffold the activity and guide as many steps of it as are needed; don't do it yourself. The intent is that participants are actively involved in every step of the process (with exceptions being made for, like, really little kids and power tools). SO's building policy does not mean that adult assistance is not permitted; that's contrary to the nature of what Science Olympiad is. On the other hand, 'dad built it' cases are travesties to the learning of everyone involved. This event is extremely complicated and generally calls for more assistance than, say, an aviation or car event would due to the nature of the device and physics involved.
sciolylover13
Member
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: June 5th, 2015, 10:23 am
Division: B
State: AL
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Adult assistance

Post by sciolylover13 »

For me, it was my design, but my dad helped with the dangerous stuff, such as cutting wood, drilling holes, etc. I tested and made all the graphs by myself, though.
2015-2016 events:Chattahoochee/Dodgen/Regionals/State/Nats?
Anatomy and Physiology: 4/////
Green Generation: 6/////
Air Trajectory: NA/////
Crime Busters: 2/////
SPP SciO
Member
Member
Posts: 286
Joined: March 24th, 2015, 8:21 am
Division: B
State: NY
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Adult assistance

Post by SPP SciO »

ft55555 wrote:How much assistance are adults allowed to provide in the design of the launch device?
I'd like to point out there's a big difference between assisting with the design of a device, and the construction of a device. To me, the much more egregious "sin" is too much adult assistance with the construction aspects. Our team's air trajectory required some dangerous parts of construction, to be sure: using a circular saw to cut lumber, drills with self-tapping screws, etc - but there's a way for even the youngest middle schoolers to handle that equipment safely (hearing protection, eye protection, ample modeling, close supervision). If sciO isn't a chance for them to do some "industrial strength" science, when is? I've heard complaints before about

The design of a device, on the other hand, is when adult assistance is necessary. I don't mean a coach or a parent drawing up blueprints for the kids to execute, but I mean Socratic-questioning sessions that lead to deeper understanding. In my experience, students will be all over the place with ideas and designs, and all the material and time constraints prohibit a totally independent inquiry. My job as the adult is to keep kids focused on the design process: what's the problem we're trying to solve? What are the rules constraints that apply here? What materials would we use in an ideal situation? What are the pros and cons of these? - it's a great time for kids to practice their scientific reasoning. We teach that a claim ("this is the way we should build it") needs to be supported by evidence and reasoning - my job is to help kids strengthen their claims, often by pointing out flaws in their reasoning. Of course, the old "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" adage applies here; eventually you've got to let the kids find their own way.

I remember as a student, and again as a coach, hearing a lot of grousing about "oh, this was built by parents" after seeing an impressive looking device. Don't judge a book by its cover. If you talk to the kids competing with this, you'd be surprised at how technically adept they are, and how well they can explain all the design choices behind their device. There is a lot of genuine, student-built innovation at every SO competition; let's not be too quick to judge everything that's "impressive" as "adult-made."
Coach
MS 821 Sunset Park Prep
http://www.sppscio.com
ft55555
Member
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: December 9th, 2015, 9:11 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Adult assistance

Post by ft55555 »

Thanks for all your feedback. The thing is that even if the kids come up with the idea for a design, say using PVC piping, it would be impossible for them to know enough about available parts to do a real design themselves. When doing repair on my home irrigation system, I myself spend countless hours at a local Home Depot asking for help with finding the right fittings such as elbows, couplers, reducing couplers, bushings, etc.

To avoid adult involvement in design, one would almost have to purchase a large set of different fittings and allow the kids figure out how to put the fittings together like it's a Lego set.
sciolylover13
Member
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: June 5th, 2015, 10:23 am
Division: B
State: AL
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Adult assistance

Post by sciolylover13 »

ft55555 wrote:Thanks for all your feedback. The thing is that even if the kids come up with the idea for a design, say using PVC piping, it would be impossible for them to know enough about available parts to do a real design themselves. When doing repair on my home irrigation system, I myself spend countless hours at a local Home Depot asking for help with finding the right fittings such as elbows, couplers, reducing couplers, bushings, etc.

To avoid adult involvement in design, one would almost have to purchase a large set of different fittings and allow the kids figure out how to put the fittings together like it's a Lego set.
I have seen some really good devices with just pvc pipes, wood, some metal brackets to keep the wood in place, chain, weights, an air chamber, and some tubes. A device doesn't have to use really complicated parts to be an accurate, precise device.

For example, in my device, the angle of my cannon is held in place by inserting a knitting needle through some drilled holes in the 2 pieces of wood that support my cannon. You can't get any more simple and effective than that.

The kids don't have to draw up the blueprints for the device or do anything like that. They can tell you just their basic idea of what they think will work, and you can fill in the blanks where they don't know what they need or what will work. As long as you don't come up with the idea for the device, then it's fine.

Or, if you have the time, you can just take them to Home Depot or Lowe's with their basic idea of the device, and take them to each aisle that you think has the materials they will need. You can guide them along as they go, and I promise that they will be able to figure it out.
2015-2016 events:Chattahoochee/Dodgen/Regionals/State/Nats?
Anatomy and Physiology: 4/////
Green Generation: 6/////
Air Trajectory: NA/////
Crime Busters: 2/////
Locked

Return to “Air Trajectory B/C”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests