Electric Vehicle C

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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby azkbisfb » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:43 pm

Ed63 wrote:Brushless motors are great, but a brushed motor is just fine for this event. We're using a brushed motor and battery directly connected and getting times in the 1.75 to 1.80 sec range. We have been the fasted car at both invitationals so far this year. Sometimes simpler is better.


As one data point, I can confirm that brushed motors work fairly well for this challenge. The winner at our state competition used 6 x AA batteries running both an
Arduino and a MOSFET motor controller coupled to a 6V motor that also included an encoder. Wheels were pretty small (probably 2.5 inches or so). Time was about 2.2 seconds and was around 5 cm away from the target on the second run.

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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby Bazinga+ » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:29 pm

azkbisfb wrote:
Ed63 wrote:Brushless motors are great, but a brushed motor is just fine for this event. We're using a brushed motor and battery directly connected and getting times in the 1.75 to 1.80 sec range. We have been the fasted car at both invitationals so far this year. Sometimes simpler is better.


As one data point, I can confirm that brushed motors work fairly well for this challenge. The winner at our state competition used 6 x AA batteries running both an
Arduino and a MOSFET motor controller coupled to a 6V motor that also included an encoder. Wheels were pretty small (probably 2.5 inches or so). Time was about 2.2 seconds and was around 5 cm away from the target on the second run.

I doubt any of the top 10 cars at nats will be brushed motor cars, since from what I've seen top 10 will be around 1.4-1.7 sec and pretty accurate, and I don't think brushed can get times that high.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby andrewwski » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:19 am

azkbisfb wrote:
Ed63 wrote:Brushless motors are great, but a brushed motor is just fine for this event. We're using a brushed motor and battery directly connected and getting times in the 1.75 to 1.80 sec range. We have been the fasted car at both invitationals so far this year. Sometimes simpler is better.


As one data point, I can confirm that brushed motors work fairly well for this challenge. The winner at our state competition used 6 x AA batteries running both an
Arduino and a MOSFET motor controller coupled to a 6V motor that also included an encoder. Wheels were pretty small (probably 2.5 inches or so). Time was about 2.2 seconds and was around 5 cm away from the target on the second run.


Were they rechargeable AA's? You can't pull much current from alkalines - especially AA size.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby azkbisfb » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:46 pm

Yes. They were the rechargeable AAs you can get pretty cheap at Costco.

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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby samlan16 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:01 am

Today, we got a lovely state-specific rule that says programming from a computer is considered remote control and will result in participation points only. While we are waiting for clarification about what this actually means, I am prepping for the worst case scenario that this applies to microcontrollers on the car as well.

For those of you not using a microcontroller, would you recommend a wingnut braking system, and is it equally reliable as in other events such as Scrambler? I remember doing something like that for Battery Buggy but did not believe it was that great.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby Bazinga+ » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:43 am

samlan16 wrote:Today, we got a lovely state-specific rule that says programming from a computer is considered remote control and will result in participation points only. While we are waiting for clarification about what this actually means, I am prepping for the worst case scenario that this applies to microcontrollers on the car as well.

For those of you not using a microcontroller, would you recommend a wingnut braking system, and is it equally reliable as in other events such as Scrambler? I remember doing something like that for Battery Buggy but did not believe it was that great.

It might just mean controlling it during the run, but in case you arent allowed to bring a computer to the event and upload a program (which is complete BS), then try adding a visual feedback (LED display or something) and then making it so you can use a button to change the setting/distance.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby windu34 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:51 am

Bazinga+ wrote:
samlan16 wrote:Today, we got a lovely state-specific rule that says programming from a computer is considered remote control and will result in participation points only. While we are waiting for clarification about what this actually means, I am prepping for the worst case scenario that this applies to microcontrollers on the car as well.

For those of you not using a microcontroller, would you recommend a wingnut braking system, and is it equally reliable as in other events such as Scrambler? I remember doing something like that for Battery Buggy but did not believe it was that great.

It might just mean controlling it during the run, but in case you arent allowed to bring a computer to the event and upload a program (which is complete BS), then try adding a visual feedback (LED display or something) and then making it so you can use a button to change the setting/distance.

I would highly recommend this approach. It takes out all of the "what if" possibilities that come with relying on a laptop to upload code and it wasn't too difficult to achieve.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby Bazinga+ » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:05 am

windu34 wrote:
Bazinga+ wrote:
samlan16 wrote:Today, we got a lovely state-specific rule that says programming from a computer is considered remote control and will result in participation points only. While we are waiting for clarification about what this actually means, I am prepping for the worst case scenario that this applies to microcontrollers on the car as well.

For those of you not using a microcontroller, would you recommend a wingnut braking system, and is it equally reliable as in other events such as Scrambler? I remember doing something like that for Battery Buggy but did not believe it was that great.

It might just mean controlling it during the run, but in case you arent allowed to bring a computer to the event and upload a program (which is complete BS), then try adding a visual feedback (LED display or something) and then making it so you can use a button to change the setting/distance.

I would highly recommend this approach. It takes out all of the "what if" possibilities that come with relying on a laptop to upload code and it wasn't too difficult to achieve.

Only issue I have is that you cant fine tune the values after your first run.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby andrewwski » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:24 am

Sure you can. Put on some sort of input device that the Arduino reads that can "trim" the device. You could use a series of buttons to key in a "trim" value, or add a potentiometer and read its analog value and correspond that to some sort of "trim" or "fine-tune" value.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby Bazinga+ » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:37 am

andrewwski wrote:Sure you can. Put on some sort of input device that the Arduino reads that can "trim" the device. You could use a series of buttons to key in a "trim" value, or add a potentiometer and read its analog value and correspond that to some sort of "trim" or "fine-tune" value.

Yes that's definitely possible, but the time needed to implament that would be better spent getting the car to go faster (since time is worth so much this year).
Not to mention you are allowed to start the car anywhere behind the starting line as long as its not more than 1 meter behind. So Instead of changing the program you can simply move the car further back/forward.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby turb0lag » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:27 pm

samlan16 wrote:Today, we got a lovely state-specific rule that says programming from a computer is considered remote control and will result in participation points only. While we are waiting for clarification about what this actually means, I am prepping for the worst case scenario that this applies to microcontrollers on the car as well.

For those of you not using a microcontroller, would you recommend a wingnut braking system, and is it equally reliable as in other events such as Scrambler? I remember doing something like that for Battery Buggy but did not believe it was that great.


I was also notified of this same rule change for the state competition. Was your team able to receive any clarification yet?

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby Bazinga+ » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:25 pm

samlan16 wrote:Today, we got a lovely state-specific rule that says programming from a computer is considered remote control and will result in participation points only. While we are waiting for clarification about what this actually means, I am prepping for the worst case scenario that this applies to microcontrollers on the car as well.

For those of you not using a microcontroller, would you recommend a wingnut braking system, and is it equally reliable as in other events such as Scrambler? I remember doing something like that for Battery Buggy but did not believe it was that great.

We had the national supervisor for EV run it at our state competition and he was completely fine with using Lap Tops for EV. This 'clarification' completely changes the whole principal of the event.
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby samlan16 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:41 am

Bazinga+ wrote:
samlan16 wrote:Today, we got a lovely state-specific rule that says programming from a computer is considered remote control and will result in participation points only. While we are waiting for clarification about what this actually means, I am prepping for the worst case scenario that this applies to microcontrollers on the car as well.

For those of you not using a microcontroller, would you recommend a wingnut braking system, and is it equally reliable as in other events such as Scrambler? I remember doing something like that for Battery Buggy but did not believe it was that great.

We had the national supervisor for EV run it at our state competition and he was completely fine with using Lap Tops for EV. This 'clarification' completely changes the whole principal of the event.

Thanks for that morsel of information. I'll be sure to have it passed on to the tournament director.
Remember, we are proud of every team that participated and you are all winners.

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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby Bazinga+ » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:09 pm

I was planning to test run the EV at nationals a day or two before the competition to calibrate it to that specific floor. I see people doing this at nationals every year when the gym where the event is to be run is open, and it goes smoothly. I am aware of the recent situation in Ohio, but I'm under the impression that they issued state specific rules which stated that people may not test cars at the competition. That being said, would testing EV in the gym long before impound be allowed, since it's definitely not an unfair competitive advantage since anyone can do it if the gym is open. I would submit an official clarification, but it does not seem like it should be under the control of science Olympiad, since the competitive tournament for EV technically doesn't start until impound (and the whole point of impound is that you can do whatever you want with the vehicle beforehand, but after it you may not touch it until the official run).
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Re: Electric Vehicle C

Postby windu34 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:17 pm

Bazinga+ wrote:I was planning to test run the EV at nationals a day or two before the competition to calibrate it to that specific floor. I see people doing this at nationals every year when the gym where the event is to be run is open, and it goes smoothly. I am aware of the recent situation in Ohio, but I'm under the impression that they issued state specific rules which stated that people may not test cars at the competition. That being said, would testing EV in the gym long before impound be allowed, since it's definitely not an unfair competitive advantage since anyone can do it if the gym is open. I would submit an official clarification, but it does not seem like it should be under the control of science Olympiad, since the competitive tournament for EV technically doesn't start until impound (and the whole point of impound is that you can do whatever you want with the vehicle beforehand, but after it you may not touch it until the official run).

I have been wondering the same thing after the situation in Ohio. I plan to submit a FAQ as well as get in contact with the tournament officials and find out.
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