Robot Arm 2017 event info

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Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by Bazinga+ »

Just making this topic for discussing/sharing any information about the changes to the robot arm event from the summer institute meeting. Please share anything you may have heard or your thoughts on any of the changes.
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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by 0ddrenaline »

I love the newly proposed rules. There's no clear maximum score, so I doubt the time tiebreaker will be used often. When I start preparing for a build event, though, I like to imagine what you would have to do in order to be unbeatable. There is a theoretical maximum limit to the points you can get within the new rules. I put the sizes of the target and coins into a calculator (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/small ... _1849.html) to find the best arrangement. 12 coins can fit into the bullseye, with the remaining 38 fitting in the surrounding circle. Here's a visualization:
[img]http://i67.tinypic.com/2h3n994.jpg[/img]
It seems near impossible though. Imagine the precision and speed required. I also think this will be a much better year for autonomous robots, since there is only one task you have to program.
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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by windu34 »

0ddrenaline wrote:I love the newly proposed rules. There's no clear maximum score, so I doubt the time tiebreaker will be used often. When I start preparing for a build event, though, I like to imagine what you would have to do in order to be unbeatable. There is a theoretical maximum limit to the points you can get within the new rules. I put the sizes of the target and coins into a calculator (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/small ... _1849.html) to find the best arrangement. 12 coins can fit into the bullseye, with the remaining 38 fitting in the surrounding circle. Here's a visualization:
[img]http://i67.tinypic.com/2h3n994.jpg[/img]
It seems near impossible though. Imagine the precision and speed required. I also think this will be a much better year for autonomous robots, since there is only one task you have to program.
This is going to be a tough device to think up. First thing that comes to mind are the casino coin bulldozers. I too like the absence of a clear max score.
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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by jander14indoor »

That's a cool tool. It actually does provide a maximum possible score. Just keep checking the next ring size. Subtract what could be contained in the smaller ring from the next higher and there you are. How easy it is to do, well, this is the second year...
10 cm ring - 12 pennies
20 cm ring - 52 pennies less 12 gives 40 in the second ring
30 cm ring - 121 pennies less 52 gives up to 69 in the third ring.
Yes I know the rules don't currently have that many pennies.

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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by peartree423 »

So for those of us who aren't fortunate enough to have a coach who went to the summer institute, would someone be willing to share pictures of the draft rules? I can't wait to start planning for next year and I'd love to start as soon as possible.

Thanks!
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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by windu34 »

peartree423 wrote:So for those of us who aren't fortunate enough to have a coach who went to the summer institute, would someone be willing to share pictures of the draft rules? I can't wait to start planning for next year and I'd love to start as soon as possible.

Thanks!
As much as I wish that could happen, it is prohibited to share draft or final rules with anyone on this site (and outside). We can ask questins and piece together the event, but we cant actually get copies of the rules.
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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by bernard »

windu34 wrote:
peartree423 wrote:So for those of us who aren't fortunate enough to have a coach who went to the summer institute, would someone be willing to share pictures of the draft rules? I can't wait to start planning for next year and I'd love to start as soon as possible.

Thanks!
As much as I wish that could happen, it is prohibited to share draft or final rules with anyone on this site (and outside). We can ask questins and piece together the event, but we cant actually get copies of the rules.
Thanks, windu34. peartree423, please see our site rules: http://www.scioly.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13. Copyright laws are very strict so we cannot allow uploading, posting, linking, or requesting rules. Thank you.
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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by peartree423 »

Ah, alright I wasn't aware of that, but thanks for letting me know. Well, then I suppose my question becomes - Can anyone describe the task our robots are supposed to accomplish for this coming year?
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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by Bazinga+ »

I know autonomous robots were mentioned but how precise will the positions of the coin stacks be? I know that last year the items were evenly spaced so it was much easier for lower levels of competition to keep it fairly precise without doing scruitinous measurements, but this year it seems a bit fuzzy on the positions of the coin stacks. I know the rules given are very underdeveloped, so will there be any strict guidelines for where the coin stacks will be placed?
Last edited by Bazinga+ on July 21st, 2016, 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robot Arm 2017 event info

Post by jander14indoor »

There is an inherent conflict in what you are asking on penny placement.
To make the event runable by the range of event supervisors across the nation, we have to leave some flexibility in setting up competition boards. Making the requirements too tight leads to appeals which are seldom a good avenue to resolve issues.
On the other hand, leaving things too loose (especially at a given competition) leads to at least a perception of unfairness.

As a working engineer, I have to deal with at least a range of uncertainty when I design systems to deal with the real world, while executing designs with high precision to ensure quality. One flaw I see in many SO competitors is the expectation that the playing field will be some precise configuration (typically what they practiced). Instead, they should read the rules and recognize what isn't controlled and practice for that range of things.
This is called designing for robustness. Something you can actually calculate and measure how well you are doing.

What competitors should expect is consistency at a given competition, but within reasonable tolerance limits (which I try to get into the rules, and are there at an implicit level with the degree of precision we use when not explicitly stated). And that tolerance depends on what part of the competition area you are talking about.
For example, I can cut/mark/layout the field in the leisure of my garage workshop in the range of 1 mm consistently. I can measure tighter, but marks are almost that large. However, the materials I use often don't support that degree of precision. I'm sorry, but commercially available products just aren't that good unless I spend WAY more than is reasonable. Plywood/hardboard/carpet/paper just isn't that consistent for flatness in particular. Nor are they stable for linear dimensions to that precision over normal temperature and humidity ranges.
On the other hand, at the competition, I can't control hand placement of objects to near that precision. I typically outline where I want objects with high precision, but then have to depend on volunteers to properly use them for 60 competitors at nationals across the length of a long tiring day while juggling multiple responsibilities. Just not conducive to less than 1 mm precision.

Hmm, what's my point.
I think you can expect clear guidelines on where the penny stacks will be, but there will be inherent tolerances on them if not explicit ones. You should design your system to handle the range of those tolerances, plus some. AND you should recognize that in spite of our best efforts centrally, there will be some variation across the nation and be prepared for it. As long as an ES is consistent during a tournament, the usual answer to appeals is "denied", it was "equally unfair to all".

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