Strongest Invitationals?

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Strongest Invitationals?

Postby kentuckyfan1001 » February 6th, 2017, 7:08 am

Hey guys, just wanted to ask what you think are the strongest invitationals out there in terms of competition. To be specific, what invitationals bring the strongest Div C and/or Div B schools to the competition? Maybe rank your top 5? I assume it looks like MIT is the cream of the crop, but I'd love to hear from you guys.

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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby dholdgreve » February 6th, 2017, 7:18 am

Depends on the year, but this year, I think Wright State would need to be up there... in preparation for hosting the National Tournament in May... 60 teams in each division coming from a dozen different States. Many of the teams attended and placed pretty high in last year's National Tournament...
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » February 6th, 2017, 7:42 am

It seems to me that in C division, MIT is currently the most competitive. Wright State is also up there, and then there are a few others that generally have a few very good teams (Westlake, Mira Loma, Mentor, Stoga, other universities).

In B, Wright State seems to be the most competitive. Some other B invites in Ohio are also very strong (Westlake, Kenston, Mentor, Solon), as well as some in California (Mira Loma, Mesa-Wilson, etc.)

There are likely some that are flying under my radar so feel free to point out some I've missed. ;)
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby Unome » February 6th, 2017, 7:45 am

I'm just going to list them in tiers, since sometimes it's really hard to distinguish.

Div C:
1. MIT (by a lot)
2. Wright State (they wouldn't have been here last year, MIT stole their thunder), Golden Gate
3. Mira Loma, Westlake, Mentor, Troy, Cornell
4. UPenn, Solon, Princeton, Rice (though the TX teams were very split), Valley Forge
5. idk maybe Boyceville, depends how the area's teams are doing. Possibly Kenston and WL-S too. A few IL and MI tournaments could be put here, but I don't know enough about those areas.

If you hadn't already heard, Twin Tiers is basically dead.

Div B:
1. Wright State (has been top pretty consistently in B)
2. Mira Loma (this and the next two because NorCal B teams are really strong right now)
3. Mountain House, Mesa-Wilson, Churchill, Mentor, Westlake, Kenston, probably one or two IL tournaments (but again, I don't know much about that area)
4. Probably Rustin (would have been tier 3 if not for snow), Boyceville, Cornell, a few IL and MI tourneys that I don't know about, Dodgen, Chattahoochee (though hopefully we'll be higher next year :D )
5. no idea

Edit: Agree with mostly everything East says above
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby antoine_ego » February 6th, 2017, 11:57 am

I'd say MIT by a long shot. Here's why.

MIT has the largest number of national event supervisors of any invitational, making many of the events at National level difficulty. A corollary of this is that the tests aren't written by coaches, ensuring at least a slightly more uniform test quality. In my experience, many of the MIT tests are up to Nationals quality in my opinion. Astronomy particularly stands out in my mind.

You have over 70 teams competing at MIT, with a large number of hyper competitive teams (Troy, Solon, etc) competing. I don't think there is any other invitational that comes close to that number of top teams. This number of teams means that cost is less of an issue for MIT, meaning they can put more money into procuring chemicals and facilities for events.
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby Unome » February 6th, 2017, 1:21 pm

antoine_ego wrote:I'd say MIT by a long shot. Here's

MIT has the largest number of national event supervisors of any invitational, making many of the events at National level difficulty. A corollary of this is that the tests aren't written by coaches, ensuring at least a slightly more uniform test quality. In my experience, many of the MIT tests are up to Nationals quality in my opinion. Astronomy particularly stands out in my mind.

You have over 70 teams competing at MIT, with a large number of hyper competitive teams (Troy, Solon, etc) competing. I don't think there is any other invitational that comes close to that number of top teams. This number of teams means that cost is less of an issue for MIT, meaning they can put more money into procuring chemicals and facilities for events.

Agree with all of the above. I would also add that since they pay for event supervisors' costs (last I heard, not sure if this is still true but seems likely), this allows them to bring in basically anyone who's willing (which they can find a lot of by going through their members' networks).
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby antoine_ego » February 6th, 2017, 2:35 pm

Unome wrote:
antoine_ego wrote:I'd say MIT by a long shot. Here's

MIT has the largest number of national event supervisors of any invitational, making many of the events at National level difficulty. A corollary of this is that the tests aren't written by coaches, ensuring at least a slightly more uniform test quality. In my experience, many of the MIT tests are up to Nationals quality in my opinion. Astronomy particularly stands out in my mind.

You have over 70 teams competing at MIT, with a large number of hyper competitive teams (Troy, Solon, etc) competing. I don't think there is any other invitational that comes close to that number of top teams. This number of teams means that cost is less of an issue for MIT, meaning they can put more money into procuring chemicals and facilities for events.

Agree with all of the above. I would also add that since they pay for event supervisors' costs (last I heard, not sure if this is still true but seems likely), this allows them to bring in basically anyone who's willing (which they can find a lot of by going through their members' networks).


So that explains why they had like 6 full sized expensive hovercraft tracks...
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby Tom_MS » February 6th, 2017, 3:03 pm

Unome wrote:I'm just going to list them in tiers, since sometimes it's really hard to distinguish.

Div C:
1. MIT (by a lot)
2. Wright State (they wouldn't have been here last year, MIT stole their thunder), Golden Gate
3. Mira Loma, Westlake, Mentor, Troy, Cornell
4. UPenn, Solon, Princeton, Rice (though the TX teams were very split), Valley Forge
5. idk maybe Boyceville, depends how the area's teams are doing. Possibly Kenston and WL-S too. A few IL and MI tournaments could be put here, but I don't know enough about those areas.



From what I've seen, Cornell has had pretty weird tests. Either incredibly easy tests, too hard ones, or badly written. The event seems to be overall poorly run as well. You can tell that some test-makers put a lot of effort into their tests, but I found the princeton experience much better and consistent.

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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby Unome » February 6th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Tom_MS wrote:
Unome wrote:I'm just going to list them in tiers, since sometimes it's really hard to distinguish.

Div C:
1. MIT (by a lot)
2. Wright State (they wouldn't have been here last year, MIT stole their thunder), Golden Gate
3. Mira Loma, Westlake, Mentor, Troy, Cornell
4. UPenn, Solon, Princeton, Rice (though the TX teams were very split), Valley Forge
5. idk maybe Boyceville, depends how the area's teams are doing. Possibly Kenston and WL-S too. A few IL and MI tournaments could be put here, but I don't know enough about those areas.



From what I've seen, Cornell has had pretty weird tests. Either incredibly easy tests, too hard ones, or badly written. The event seems to be overall poorly run as well. You can tell that some test-makers put a lot of effort into their tests, but I found the princeton experience much better and consistent.

I didn't rank by quality (from what I've seen, I agree with you on Cornell) but by competitiveness.
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby SOPomo » February 7th, 2017, 10:38 am

Unome wrote:Div B:
1. Wright State (has been top pretty consistently in B)
2. Mira Loma (this and the next two because NorCal B teams are really strong right now)
3. Mountain House, Mesa-Wilson, Churchill, Mentor, Westlake, Kenston, probably one or two IL tournaments (but again, I don't know much about that area)
4. Probably Rustin (would have been tier 3 if not for snow), Boyceville, Cornell, a few IL and MI tourneys that I don't know about, Dodgen, Chattahoochee (though hopefully we'll be higher next year :D )
5. no idea


Yeah that Mira Loma one stepped up a notch getting Daniel Wright out as well. Any event with Kennedy and Churchill and Kraemer and/or Jeffrey Trail is going to be rough (why they're your #3), throw in the #1 team from last year and some more bay area teams and woof, tough tourney.

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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby CVMSAvalacheStudent » February 9th, 2017, 4:29 pm

SOPomo wrote:
Unome wrote:Div B:
1. Wright State (has been top pretty consistently in B)
2. Mira Loma (this and the next two because NorCal B teams are really strong right now)
3. Mountain House, Mesa-Wilson, Churchill, Mentor, Westlake, Kenston, probably one or two IL tournaments (but again, I don't know much about that area)
4. Probably Rustin (would have been tier 3 if not for snow), Boyceville, Cornell, a few IL and MI tourneys that I don't know about, Dodgen, Chattahoochee (though hopefully we'll be higher next year :D )
5. no idea


Yeah that Mira Loma one stepped up a notch getting Daniel Wright out as well. Any event with Kennedy and Churchill and Kraemer and/or Jeffrey Trail is going to be rough (why they're your #3), throw in the #1 team from last year and some more bay area teams and woof, tough tourney.


I agree, but that only applies if you're in Southern California but by far the MIT or Cornell invitationals are the hardest. I have placed above Kraemar and Jeffrey Trail in all my events, but they are good, if not great.
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby Unome » February 9th, 2017, 4:44 pm

CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
SOPomo wrote:
Unome wrote:Div B:
1. Wright State (has been top pretty consistently in B)
2. Mira Loma (this and the next two because NorCal B teams are really strong right now)
3. Mountain House, Mesa-Wilson, Churchill, Mentor, Westlake, Kenston, probably one or two IL tournaments (but again, I don't know much about that area)
4. Probably Rustin (would have been tier 3 if not for snow), Boyceville, Cornell, a few IL and MI tourneys that I don't know about, Dodgen, Chattahoochee (though hopefully we'll be higher next year :D )
5. no idea


Yeah that Mira Loma one stepped up a notch getting Daniel Wright out as well. Any event with Kennedy and Churchill and Kraemer and/or Jeffrey Trail is going to be rough (why they're your #3), throw in the #1 team from last year and some more bay area teams and woof, tough tourney.


I agree, but that only applies if you're in Southern California but by far the MIT or Cornell invitationals are the hardest. I have placed above Kraemar and Jeffrey Trail in all my events, but they are good, if not great.

I really wouldn't rank Cornell anywhere near MIT in terms of competitiveness; just take a look at the teams competing.
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby CVMSAvalacheStudent » February 9th, 2017, 4:45 pm

Unome wrote:
CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
SOPomo wrote:
Yeah that Mira Loma one stepped up a notch getting Daniel Wright out as well. Any event with Kennedy and Churchill and Kraemer and/or Jeffrey Trail is going to be rough (why they're your #3), throw in the #1 team from last year and some more bay area teams and woof, tough tourney.


I agree, but that only applies if you're in Southern California but by far the MIT or Cornell invitationals are the hardest. I have placed above Kraemar and Jeffrey Trail in all my events, but they are good, if not great.

I really wouldn't rank Cornell anywhere near MIT in terms of competitiveness; just take a look at the teams competing.


Thanks for pointing it out. MIT really is the hardest.
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby maxxxxx » February 9th, 2017, 7:28 pm

Unome wrote:
CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
SOPomo wrote:
Yeah that Mira Loma one stepped up a notch getting Daniel Wright out as well. Any event with Kennedy and Churchill and Kraemer and/or Jeffrey Trail is going to be rough (why they're your #3), throw in the #1 team from last year and some more bay area teams and woof, tough tourney.


I agree, but that only applies if you're in Southern California but by far the MIT or Cornell invitationals are the hardest. I have placed above Kraemar and Jeffrey Trail in all my events, but they are good, if not great.

I really wouldn't rank Cornell anywhere near MIT in terms of competitiveness; just take a look at the teams competing.


Yeah UPenn is probably more competitive than Cornell this year just from the teams attending and it's only its first year.
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Re: Strongest Invitationals?

Postby kenniky » February 9th, 2017, 9:07 pm

UPenn is also literally in Philadelphia with relatively easy access from PA, NJ and NY

Cornell, meanwhile, is in the middle of nowhere upstate New York


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