Illinois 2017

laneyoung
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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby laneyoung » March 12th, 2017, 2:08 pm

So the reason behind the closed Avogadro isn't legal. It does hit on the issue of combined Varsity and JV, but not for the reasons you touched on. At state where there is A/AA that grouping is simply for medal purposes. In theory an A team could finish in the top 2 and get a nationals bid. If this happens the seeding committee really messed up but it is possible. All teams in a division, whether A or AA, are ultimately competing against each other.

For Varsity and JV that isn't the case. Varsity teams are ultimately competing against Varsity teams and JV teams against JV. No JV team will ever get a bid to go to state. By having them grouped together you could skew the results. Here's an example using a hypothetical 6 team, 4 event competition


A Varsity 1 6 1 1 9
B Varsity 2 1 2 2 7
C Varsity 3 3 3 3 12
A JV 4 2 4 5 15
B JV 5 4 5 4 18
C JV 6 5 6 6 23

At first glance team B wins. They have the fewest points. However since it's IL policy to only rank Varsity against Varsity and JV against JV the real results according to our policy are:

A Varsity 1 3 1 1 6
B Varsity 2 1 2 2 7
C Varsity 3 2 3 3 11

A JV 1 1 1 2 5
B JV 2 2 2 1 7
C JV 3 3 3 3 12

So Team A is actually the winner.

So beyond confusion, and beyond it being discouraging for Varsity teams to be beaten by JV teams, the combined grid could actually present incorrect information.

Hope that helps.

Congrats to Daniel Wright, Stevenson, Latin, and Hinsdale on their wins yesterday. Just three more regionals left to go.
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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby Skink » March 12th, 2017, 4:03 pm

That follows, and I, too, agree with the closed Avogadro on those grounds. Thanks for the explanation. :ugeek:

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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby Abekitt » March 12th, 2017, 6:22 pm

Yea that makes sense. I mean my coach has probably gotten it because I just want to see how I did in some events and who else did well at the CoD regionals and is going to state with us. Personally while some may get discouraged that a JV beat a varsity, we can't forget that the JV team could have more seniors and experience than varsity since there is a limit for varsity on seniors, so sometimes I do not find it as surprising when a JV beats a varsity.
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kjhsscioly
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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby kjhsscioly » March 14th, 2017, 6:31 pm

Abekitt wrote:Anybody know the top5 for the College of Dupage regionals? I was there but the mic was so quiet i couldnt hear the top 4. I know:
7. York
6. Glenbard South (i think im not 100% sure)
5. Addison Trail



I was the one reading the DivB awards, and practically shouting into the mike, so sorry it was quiet!

I think (but don't quote me, because I was reading on autopilot) that the top 3 for C were Hinsdale Central, Naper North, and Naper Central. Not sure who 4 was, sorry.

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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby Skink » March 14th, 2017, 6:34 pm

Now, that's a name I haven't seen in years. :o It's really cool how folks stay involved!

If I had to guess, it was probably Benet or Lisle...

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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby Ashernoel » March 18th, 2017, 4:55 pm

Oakton C not yet on Avogadro

1) New Trier - 39 (rip expd)
2) Loyola Academy
3) Niles West High School
4) Niles North High School
5) Beacon
6) St ignatious

1-5 have bids for state

Div B

1) Marie Murphy - 49
2) Twin Groves - 67 (took a lot of firsts of marie murphy it seemed...)
3) ...other schools I didn't pay attention too...
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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby kkenmots02 » March 18th, 2017, 5:06 pm

Ashernoel wrote:Oakton C not yet on Avogadro

1) New Trier - 39 (rip expd)
2) Loyola Academy
3) Niles West High School
4) Niles North High School
5) Beacon
6) St ignatious

1-5 have bids for state

Div B

1) Marie Murphy - 49
2) Twin Groves - 67 (took a lot of firsts of marie murphy it seemed...)
3) ...other schools I didn't pay attention too...

I can fill in:
3) Hawthorn
4) North Park Elementary School
5) Old Orchard
6) Attea

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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby HeavyHitter406 » March 19th, 2017, 7:52 am

I'm interested to see whether Twin Groves will be in division AA or not at state. As far as I know, they haven't performed well enough at State to be granted AA status. I mean, I hadn't even heard of them before this year. They could seriously make a bid for the second nationals spot in B! This team comes out of nowhere and placed less than 20 points behind MM?!?!. Between Daniel Wright, Marie Murphy, Twin Groves, and SAA, this promises to be an intense battle for two spots at State.
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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby dvegadvol » March 19th, 2017, 10:45 am

Well, they're a feeder school for Stevenson. Maybe big brother Stevenson is grooming their Triple-A farm team?

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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby HeavyHitter406 » March 19th, 2017, 11:17 am

Ah! Did not know that. That would make perfect sense, however. As much as I love a good underdog, I must confess I'll be rooting for my alma mater SAA to pull through, especially if Twin Groves does feed right into Stevenson. That doesn't grant them quite the outsider status necessary for my support ;) .
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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby Shadow_Rider » March 19th, 2017, 11:42 am

HeavyHitter406 wrote:I'm interested to see whether Twin Groves will be in division AA or not at state. As far as I know, they haven't performed well enough at State to be granted AA status. I mean, I hadn't even heard of them before this year. They could seriously make a bid for the second nationals spot in B! This team comes out of nowhere and placed less than 20 points behind MM?!?!. Between Daniel Wright, Marie Murphy, Twin Groves, and SAA, this promises to be an intense battle for two spots at State.

I am from Twin Groves, and this is our school's third year in science olympiad. We got 6th last year at state, and 15th(?) in our first year.

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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby Selundar » March 19th, 2017, 12:00 pm

I'm also from Twin Groves. Our first year we got 12th (and 6th is correct for last year), and have always been in AA. We are a feeder school for Stevenson. However, we have received minimal support from their team. The only help we got was that a couple of their members who used to go to TG came to a couple Saturday practices, but that really did not influence the results very much. Ashernoel commented (sorry I don't know how to quote it) that we seemed to take a lot of firsts off MM. We got 8 first places and MM took 9, so the medal count was very close in that respect. We are all very proud of our performance at Regionals and hope to do very well at State as well.
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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby HeavyHitter406 » March 19th, 2017, 1:11 pm

Selundar wrote:I'm also from Twin Groves. Our first year we got 12th (and 6th is correct for last year), and have always been in AA. We are a feeder school for Stevenson. However, we have received minimal support from their team. The only help we got was that a couple of their members who used to go to TG came to a couple Saturday practices, but that really did not influence the results very much. Ashernoel commented (sorry I don't know how to quote it) that we seemed to take a lot of firsts off MM. We got 8 first places and MM took 9, so the medal count was very close in that respect. We are all very proud of our performance at Regionals and hope to do very well at State as well.


As you should be! For only a third year team, you guys are performing extraordinarily well, and it's amazing you made it to state in your first year as well. I am rather surprised you were placed in AA your first year at state. My team (Beacon) just made it to state for the first time yesterday (in our second year as a team and only our third year as a school), and I was under the impression a team's placement into AA was based on the past two years of state rankings. I was hoping that would guarantee us to be in A for the next two years, but perhaps they've changed the system.
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Water Quality: 8/1/2/1/2/3
Experimental Design: 12/1/5/5/8/37
Road Scholar: 12/2/2/3/3/11
Wheeled Vehicle: 32/6/6/2/11/5

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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby Selundar » March 19th, 2017, 2:18 pm

HeavyHitter406 wrote:
Selundar wrote:I'm also from Twin Groves. Our first year we got 12th (and 6th is correct for last year), and have always been in AA. We are a feeder school for Stevenson. However, we have received minimal support from their team. The only help we got was that a couple of their members who used to go to TG came to a couple Saturday practices, but that really did not influence the results very much. Ashernoel commented (sorry I don't know how to quote it) that we seemed to take a lot of firsts off MM. We got 8 first places and MM took 9, so the medal count was very close in that respect. We are all very proud of our performance at Regionals and hope to do very well at State as well.


As you should be! For only a third year team, you guys are performing extraordinarily well, and it's amazing you made it to state in your first year as well. I am rather surprised you were placed in AA your first year at state. My team (Beacon) just made it to state for the first time yesterday (in our second year as a team and only our third year as a school), and I was under the impression a team's placement into AA was based on the past two years of state rankings. I was hoping that would guarantee us to be in A for the next two years, but perhaps they've changed the system.


Congrats on making it to state! Division C was a very hard competition at Oakton. From what I know, placement in A/AA depends on the team's previous performances at state, how well they did at their regional, and how competitive the regional was. At least, that's what it says on the SciOly wiki page for Illinois.
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Re: Illinois 2017

Postby Skink » March 19th, 2017, 4:24 pm

Twin Groves is a really interesting team because they came out of nowhere and, if you pay close attention to their results, have a strategy. When they're on the board, it's often first place. They relatively bomb other events, but the team score works out because the averages are favorable. As for top two, however, it's still DW and MM. S&A isn't strong enough to take second but is well ahead of TG.

Finding out that TG is another Stevenson feeder is an interesting tidbit. I knew Stevenson was large, but it never occurred to me to consider where their other participants were coming from...


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