Southern California 2017

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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby CVMSAvalacheStudent » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:12 am

Unome wrote:
sandvinsd wrote:
Unome wrote:Could you explain the scoring specifically? There's no way these scores could line up with 117 teams without their being a points cutoff.


I don't know the actual scores, but the scoring for San Diego is as follows: There were 117 teams from 35 schools. There are 20 awards for each event. First place in each event is worth 21 points, 2nd place 20 points, etc so that 20th place is 2 points. For those participating but not earning a medal, they get 1 point. No points are awarded if a team did not participate in the event.

For team trophies, the best performing team for each school is ranked. There are up to six teams from each school, but only the top team from the school is eligible for the team trophy. I know there was a scoring issue reported after the regional which did change the standings. Black Mountain and Mesa Verde switched spots. Design 39 school also moved up to 9th, but did not qualify for state.

This is the current placing for the schools qualifying for state:

1 Carmel Valley
2 Oak Valley
3 Black Mountain
4 Mesa Verde
5 Pacific Trails
6 Meadowbrook
7 Ocean Air
8 Marshall

Ok, so reverse scoring with a cutoff at 21. For others who may care, essentially 23*21 - score will give the score in the usual format (though one cannot adjust for the points cutoff without knowing raw scores).

I believe there were less than 117 teams participating.
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby rgandhi2002 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:12 am

CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
Unome wrote:
sandvinsd wrote:
I don't know the actual scores, but the scoring for San Diego is as follows: There were 117 teams from 35 schools. There are 20 awards for each event. First place in each event is worth 21 points, 2nd place 20 points, etc so that 20th place is 2 points. For those participating but not earning a medal, they get 1 point. No points are awarded if a team did not participate in the event.

For team trophies, the best performing team for each school is ranked. There are up to six teams from each school, but only the top team from the school is eligible for the team trophy. I know there was a scoring issue reported after the regional which did change the standings. Black Mountain and Mesa Verde switched spots. Design 39 school also moved up to 9th, but did not qualify for state.

This is the current placing for the schools qualifying for state:

1 Carmel Valley
2 Oak Valley
3 Black Mountain
4 Mesa Verde
5 Pacific Trails
6 Meadowbrook
7 Ocean Air
8 Marshall

Ok, so reverse scoring with a cutoff at 21. For others who may care, essentially 23*21 - score will give the score in the usual format (though one cannot adjust for the points cutoff without knowing raw scores).

I believe there were less than 117 teams participating.

Unless I'm completely confused, it looks like there were 120 teams actually. There were 117 teams at San Diego Regionals. Several of which probably didn't do all 23 events making it seem like less teams were present.
But anyway, the overall team scoring seems a bit odd as everyone beyond the top 20 seem to have gotten 1 point and the DQ'ed teams got 0 points to their total (highest total score in San Diego wins). Although from what I've looked at the ranking of the schools is pretty much the same no matter how you look at it.
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby CVMSAvalacheStudent » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:55 am

rgandhi2002 wrote:
CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
Unome wrote:Ok, so reverse scoring with a cutoff at 21. For others who may care, essentially 23*21 - score will give the score in the usual format (though one cannot adjust for the points cutoff without knowing raw scores).

I believe there were less than 117 teams participating.

Unless I'm completely confused, it looks like there were 120 teams actually. There were 117 teams at San Diego Regionals. Several of which probably didn't do all 23 events making it seem like less teams were present.
But anyway, the overall team scoring seems a bit odd as everyone beyond the top 20 seem to have gotten 1 point and the DQ'ed teams got 0 points to their total (highest total score in San Diego wins). Although from what I've looked at the ranking of the schools is pretty much the same no matter how you look at it.


Okay, now it makes sense thanks
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby Entomology » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:00 am

They also messed up a little bit on scoring--the B2 tests were not graded for 3 events. Ultimately, this did not affect the teams going to state, but 2 school rankings changed. Black Mountain moved to 3rd and Design 39 moved up to 9th.
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby CVMSAvalacheStudent » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:46 am

Entomology wrote:They also messed up a little bit on scoring--the B2 tests were not graded for 3 events. Ultimately, this did not affect the teams going to state, but 2 school rankings changed. Black Mountain moved to 3rd and Design 39 moved up to 9th.



So Mesa Verde got fourth. I was wondering how Torrey Hills placed and not Design 39.
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby CVMSAvalacheStudent » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:47 am

rgandhi2002 wrote:
CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
Unome wrote:Ok, so reverse scoring with a cutoff at 21. For others who may care, essentially 23*21 - score will give the score in the usual format (though one cannot adjust for the points cutoff without knowing raw scores).

I believe there were less than 117 teams participating.

Unless I'm completely confused, it looks like there were 120 teams actually. There were 117 teams at San Diego Regionals. Several of which probably didn't do all 23 events making it seem like less teams were present.
But anyway, the overall team scoring seems a bit odd as everyone beyond the top 20 seem to have gotten 1 point and the DQ'ed teams got 0 points to their total (highest total score in San Diego wins). Although from what I've looked at the ranking of the schools is pretty much the same no matter how you look at it.


Why can you only have 15 students for a State team? I don't quite understand the logic.
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby Unome » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:28 am

CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
rgandhi2002 wrote:
CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:I believe there were less than 117 teams participating.

Unless I'm completely confused, it looks like there were 120 teams actually. There were 117 teams at San Diego Regionals. Several of which probably didn't do all 23 events making it seem like less teams were present.
But anyway, the overall team scoring seems a bit odd as everyone beyond the top 20 seem to have gotten 1 point and the DQ'ed teams got 0 points to their total (highest total score in San Diego wins). Although from what I've looked at the ranking of the schools is pretty much the same no matter how you look at it.


Why can you only have 15 students for a State team? I don't quite understand the logic.

...because it's a national rule that the state organization hasn't changed?
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby Entomology » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:48 am

CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
rgandhi2002 wrote:
CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:I believe there were less than 117 teams participating.

Unless I'm completely confused, it looks like there were 120 teams actually. There were 117 teams at San Diego Regionals. Several of which probably didn't do all 23 events making it seem like less teams were present.
But anyway, the overall team scoring seems a bit odd as everyone beyond the top 20 seem to have gotten 1 point and the DQ'ed teams got 0 points to their total (highest total score in San Diego wins). Although from what I've looked at the ranking of the schools is pretty much the same no matter how you look at it.


Why can you only have 15 students for a State team? I don't quite understand the logic.


Two words: Tournament space.
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby Fanglin » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:02 am

Entomology wrote:
CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
rgandhi2002 wrote:Unless I'm completely confused, it looks like there were 120 teams actually. There were 117 teams at San Diego Regionals. Several of which probably didn't do all 23 events making it seem like less teams were present.
But anyway, the overall team scoring seems a bit odd as everyone beyond the top 20 seem to have gotten 1 point and the DQ'ed teams got 0 points to their total (highest total score in San Diego wins). Although from what I've looked at the ranking of the schools is pretty much the same no matter how you look at it.


Why can you only have 15 students for a State team? I don't quite understand the logic.


Two words: Tournament space.
Well, there has always been 15 or less people on a team, regardless the tournament. Lets say you have an expansive team of 100 members, and you all attend some Invitational. You don't have a team of 100, you would take 6 teams of 15, and maybe have an incomplete team of leftovers.

The reason you're only allowed 1 team at states and nationals, is:
1. You're supposed to have the same team at both States and Nationals, which can't be big (see #3)
2. You're supposed to take only the BEST members of your team forward, which is why competition gets tougher at higher levels (as it should)
3. They don't have room at Nationals to accommodate. Currently around 121 teams attend nationals (60B, 60C, and that one from Japan). If only half of those teams brought a second team, you now have roughly 181 teams, accounting for roughly 2722 kids. (which is a lot)

Let me know If I didn't do my math correctly.
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby smolblob » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:14 pm

Fanglin wrote:
Entomology wrote:
CVMSAvalacheStudent wrote:
Why can you only have 15 students for a State team? I don't quite understand the logic.


Two words: Tournament space.
Well, there has always been 15 or less people on a team, regardless the tournament. Lets say you have an expansive team of 100 members, and you all attend some Invitational. You don't have a team of 100, you would take 6 teams of 15, and maybe have an incomplete team of leftovers.

The reason you're only allowed 1 team at states and nationals, is:
1. You're supposed to have the same team at both States and Nationals, which can't be big (see #3)
2. You're supposed to take only the BEST members of your team forward, which is why competition gets tougher at higher levels (as it should)
3. They don't have room at Nationals to accommodate. Currently around 121 teams attend nationals (60B, 60C, and that one from Japan). If only half of those teams brought a second team, you now have roughly 181 teams, accounting for roughly 2722 kids. (which is a lot)

Let me know If I didn't do my math correctly.

there's a team from japan at nationals??
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby maxxxxx » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:42 pm

smolblob wrote:
Fanglin wrote:
Entomology wrote:
Two words: Tournament space.
Well, there has always been 15 or less people on a team, regardless the tournament. Lets say you have an expansive team of 100 members, and you all attend some Invitational. You don't have a team of 100, you would take 6 teams of 15, and maybe have an incomplete team of leftovers.

The reason you're only allowed 1 team at states and nationals, is:
1. You're supposed to have the same team at both States and Nationals, which can't be big (see #3)
2. You're supposed to take only the BEST members of your team forward, which is why competition gets tougher at higher levels (as it should)
3. They don't have room at Nationals to accommodate. Currently around 121 teams attend nationals (60B, 60C, and that one from Japan). If only half of those teams brought a second team, you now have roughly 181 teams, accounting for roughly 2722 kids. (which is a lot)

Let me know If I didn't do my math correctly.

there's a team from japan at nationals??


They aren't scored with the rest of the teams but at the awards ceremony they announce what place they would've gotten in an event. Last year they would've placed 21st in Forensics IIRC.
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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby sandvinsd » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:01 pm

Orange County Regional Results:

1. Jeffrey Trail A (74)
2. Kraemer A (89)
3. Jeffrey Trail B (121)
4 Kraemer B (155)
5. Sierra Vista (159)
6. Cerro Villa (181)
7. Pioneer (195)
8. Oak Middle(242)
9. Fisler Elementary (242)
10 Ladera Vista (246)

Without Muscatel (or maybe even if they were around this year) it is going to be a knockdown fight in states between several schools this year:

Jeffrey Trail (#1 in OC, #6 2016 state)
Kraemer (#2 OC, #2 2016 state)
CVMS (#1 SD, #4 2016 state)
Oak Valley (#2 SD, #7 2016 state)
Mesa Verde (#4 SD, #3 last year state)
Mesa Robles (#5 2016 state)
Black Mountain (#3 SD, #8 2016 state)
Chaparral (#9 2016 state)

Predictions? Jeffrey Trail and Kraemer have performed the best at invitationals where the other schools also competed.

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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby sandvinsd » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:41 pm

Division C Orange County Regional Results:

1. Troy 70
2. Northwood 91
3. University HS 96
4. OCHSA 149
5. Irvine 164
6. Beckman 195
7. Canyon 196
8. Valencia 197
9. Woodbridge 213
10. Portola 218

Closer than I thought it would be. Did Troy loose a bit or have the others come up? Last year Northwood and University finished 7 and 12th in the state but were right on Troy's tail in the regional. Or put another way, there are 5 schools from the LA and SD regions that were between #1 Troy and #2 Northwood in the 2016 state. Still believe that Troy will win hands down, but interesting results nonetheless.

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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby PacificGoldenPlover » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:34 pm

sandvinsd wrote:Division C Orange County Regional Results:

1. Troy 70
2. Northwood 91
3. University HS 96
4. OCHSA 149
5. Irvine 164
6. Beckman 195
7. Canyon 196
8. Valencia 197
9. Woodbridge 213
10. Portola 218

Closer than I thought it would be. Did Troy loose a bit or have the others come up? Last year Northwood and University finished 7 and 12th in the state but were right on Troy's tail in the regional. Or put another way, there are 5 schools from the LA and SD regions that were between #1 Troy and #2 Northwood in the 2016 state. Still believe that Troy will win hands down, but interesting results nonetheless.

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Re: Southern California 2017

Postby Unome » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:25 pm

sandvinsd wrote:Division C Orange County Regional Results:

1. Troy 70
2. Northwood 91
3. University HS 96
4. OCHSA 149
5. Irvine 164
6. Beckman 195
7. Canyon 196
8. Valencia 197
9. Woodbridge 213
10. Portola 218

Closer than I thought it would be. Did Troy loose a bit or have the others come up? Last year Northwood and University finished 7 and 12th in the state but were right on Troy's tail in the regional. Or put another way, there are 5 schools from the LA and SD regions that were between #1 Troy and #2 Northwood in the 2016 state. Still believe that Troy will win hands down, but interesting results nonetheless.

If this was yesterday, Troy was also competing at Golden Gate (and won by a lot) so that my have something to do with it.
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