New Jersey 2017

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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby scioly_veteran » March 11th, 2017, 8:20 pm

Honestly, the only way that this competition would have been fair was to just cancel the event for the team point calculations. The rules specifically state that each team may only receive 2 official flights regardless of whether or not the helicopter got stuck or not. However, the ES allowed them to have as many flights, until 2 flights came down, allowing each team to retrieve the helicopter to test multiple times. This was not the only violation of the rules that occurred with this event. The ES allowed the time to keep timing until the helicopter (by luck) came down. The rules specifically state that the timer must be stopped when the helicopter could not support itself. At Regionals, there were many helicopters that did the same thing (1 rotor stuck), but the event supervisors stopped the time because it has always been this way. With the incorrect times, teams were able to achieve insane times of up to 4 minutes 30 seconds. This is just not right because teams at the national level strive to achieve times just over 2.5 minutes. I also have done this event in the past in the B division, and the timers were stopped when the one rotor got stuck. I personally think that the New Jersey's Science Olympiad Director made the right decision to cancel the event, (while commending some lucky competitors at the same time). It is just not fair to count it for the team score because it would not be a competition of who is better, but a competition "testing" luck.

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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby anom1 » March 12th, 2017, 8:07 am

Hello

I am not associated with any schools or groups. This is only my personal opinion.

As mentioned before, helicopters was an event previously and it was conducted in the same gym where it was conducted this year. During that time, the event counted towards team position. Since there have been no major changes in the rules, why should it not count this time around? Also, during previous invitationals this year, many helicopters got stuck in the rafter on the ceiling but yet the event still counted. Everyone has the same chance of their helicopter getting caught. Third, if the event supervisors have made a mistake, they were consistent with everyone. No one team got an advantage due to the ways they counted the time and score. If teams had previously known about this, there was no major change they could have made to their helicopter to benefit them. This example was also seen in a previous invitational for robot arm. Most supervisors said that overlapping pennies count as only 1 penny but the supervisor their said that they do not count as any. Now this effected the scores of almost all of the teams. This meant that EVERY SINGLE TEAM was scored the same way and so no team came out with an advantage. This event still counted towards the final placement of teams. This should also be the case for helicopters.

Again, I am not part of any teams and this is only my sole opinion.

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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby maxxxxx » March 12th, 2017, 9:19 am

anom1 wrote:This example was also seen in a previous invitational for robot arm. Most supervisors said that overlapping pennies count as only 1 penny but the supervisor their said that they do not count as any. Now this effected the scores of almost all of the teams. This meant that EVERY SINGLE TEAM was scored the same way and so no team came out with an advantage. This event still counted towards the final placement of teams. This should also be the case for helicopters.

Again, I am not part of any teams and this is only my sole opinion.


This is a poor example because rule 7.a. clearly states that overlapping pennies receive 0 points, while rule 4.j. for Helicopters isn't as specific. Furthermore, that method of Robot Arm scoring would not treat everyone the same, because teams who built their robot to the rules would have the same score, while teams who relied on overlapping pennies would have a lower score. In that case it absolutely should've counted towards the final team scores because it followed the rules. The reason why Helicopters is so up-in-the-air is because the rules seem to leave this scenario up to interpretation, and because we do not know every detail about how the event was run, we should wait until the arbitration committee reaches a decision, and then trust that decision because it is most likely going to be a hard one to make.
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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby BuildingFriend » March 12th, 2017, 9:34 am

Couldn't they just send both teams :( One more team won't hurt haha

[EDIT] Ok it might be a little dangerous
Last edited by BuildingFriend on March 12th, 2017, 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby Unome » March 12th, 2017, 10:08 am

BuildingFriend wrote:Couldn't they just send both teams :( One more team won't hurt haha

It most certainly would, considering the amount of logistical effort, as well as the dangers this opens up. This has been expanded upon multiple times by others in the forums.
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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby knottingpurple » March 12th, 2017, 10:41 am

If NJ were a state that sent two teams to Nats then there might be slightly less stress and competition between 1st and 2nd but I'm sure controversies would come up between 2nd and 3rd :P Of course everyone always wants to go to Nats but I guess we just... Have to deal, right? (And stress over the precise definition of 5 days shouldn't 5 days be almost finished?)
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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby pb5754[] » March 12th, 2017, 12:36 pm

knottingpurple wrote:(And stress over the precise definition of 5 days shouldn't 5 days be almost finished?)

ikr *sigh*

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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby BuildingFriend » March 12th, 2017, 6:00 pm

Official Results:
WWPS: 87
Montgomery: 88
WWPN: 109
EBHS: 172
SBHS: 178
JP Stevens: 197

End Result: Helicopter Unscored

Congratulations to WWPS!
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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby lumosityfan » March 12th, 2017, 6:00 pm

New Jersey Results FINALLY OUT! And nothing has changed. It's official: South is going to Nationals!

http://www.njscienceolympiad.org/tourna ... 017/state/
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See my favorite teams' event history: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby nxtscholar » March 12th, 2017, 6:15 pm

Well, lumosityfan, at least JP Stevens continues it's dominance in structures. :D If only our hs could do the same in other events.

And I see why they deliberated for all of the 5 days possible.

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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby fanjiatian » March 12th, 2017, 6:23 pm

That one point diff tho

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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby antoine_ego » March 12th, 2017, 6:27 pm

fanjiatian wrote:That one point diff tho

1pt differences are saddening
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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby nxtscholar » March 12th, 2017, 6:29 pm

antoine_ego wrote:
fanjiatian wrote:That one point diff tho

1pt differences are saddening


tbh, I'm just wondering if they could illuminate us on the thought process and be transparent on how they got to the final decision.

the fact it took 5 days meant they thought about it.

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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby BuildingFriend » March 12th, 2017, 6:36 pm

nxtscholar wrote:
antoine_ego wrote:
fanjiatian wrote:That one point diff tho

1pt differences are saddening


tbh, I'm just wondering if they could illuminate us on the thought process and be transparent on how they got to the final decision.

the fact it took 5 days meant they thought about it.


Or they made it look like it
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Re: New Jersey 2017

Postby sci_oly » March 12th, 2017, 6:54 pm

BuildingFriend wrote:
nxtscholar wrote:
antoine_ego wrote:1pt differences are saddening


tbh, I'm just wondering if they could illuminate us on the thought process and be transparent on how they got to the final decision.

the fact it took 5 days meant they thought about it.


Or they made it look like it


NJSO probably already knew what they were going to do as soon as heli was appealed, and were also aware of how controversial this was; thus, they probably just waited the 5 days to make it seem like they deliberated about this, when they actually did not at all.


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