Ohio 2017

[kenniky]

Full results are here: tiny.cc/ohso

Solon cutting it close with those Optics and WIDI scores... wow

[dhdarren]

Overall, States yesterday was great and felt very well organized! Events were much more centralized compared to before, so much easier to run around between back-to-back events. The tests I took were also awesome (Dynamic test was probably the hardest test I've ever taken, in terms of both content and pacing ). One very major complaint that I had though, and maybe Chalker could help answer this, since he posted the question earlier... Who the heck chose the venue for Helicopters? For sure the worst venue I've ever flown in, despite there being many other spots (including the original location) being much better. Obstructed ceiling, sloped ceiling, not to mention the tarp trap that got several helicopters permanently stuck. Our team got lucky on our first flight by not hitting anything besides brushing the curtain on the way down, and we got 2:17, pulling first place, but on our second flight, as many teams did, it failed due to all of the obstructions around the venue. There was basically a ~10-15 foot wide spot on the ceiling that you had to plant the helicopter to avoid complete oblivion of your helicopter, and regardless of how well your helicopter is built, that can be difficult to execute when the ceiling is 30' high. Then, if you managed to plant your helicopter on the ceiling, it would probably begin drifting towards the curtain due to the slope of
the ceiling, and it would be a game of luck on it's descent. I personally saw Solon go before us and fail their second flight due to hitting ceiling obstructions. Overall, well-run tournament this year, but this is one major flaw that I (and probably many other teams) am having trouble comprehending.

[Raleway]

Overall, States yesterday was great and felt very well organized! Events were much more centralized compared to before, so much easier to run around between back-to-back events. The tests I took were also awesome (Dynamic test was probably the hardest test I've ever taken, in terms of both content and pacing ). One very major complaint that I had though, and maybe Chalker could help answer this, since he posted the question earlier... Who the heck chose the venue for Helicopters? For sure the worst venue I've ever flown in, despite there being many other spots (including the original location) being much better. Obstructed ceiling, sloped ceiling, not to mention the tarp trap that got several helicopters permanently stuck. Our team got lucky on our first flight by not hitting anything besides brushing the curtain on the way down, and we got 2:17, pulling first place, but on our second flight, as many teams did, it failed due to all of the obstructions around the venue. There was basically a ~10-15 foot wide spot on the ceiling that you had to plant the helicopter to avoid complete oblivion of your helicopter, and regardless of how well your helicopter is built, that can be difficult to execute when the ceiling is 30' high. Then, if you managed to plant your helicopter on the ceiling, it would probably begin drifting towards the curtain due to the slope of
the ceiling, and it would be a game of luck on it's descent. I personally saw Solon go before us and fail their second flight due to hitting ceiling obstructions. Overall, well-run tournament this year, but this is one major flaw that I (and probably many other teams) am having trouble comprehending.

Seems like... NJ again........... except this one was counted? Just as a question for the future, is there going to be an overarching rule because teams are getting super competitive and close such that 1 point (NJ) or 2 points (OH) can determine who goes to nationals or who doesn't. This amount of variability really shouldn't be on the competitor's minds because I feel it destroys the spirit of competition and makes a stressful day way more stressful. An overall set of clarifications/rules on what venue can be used would be great, rather than a suggestion I guess?

[jakool6]

Congrats to all those who placed and are going to Nats!
Others, see you next year!

[chalker]

Overall, States yesterday was great and felt very well organized! Events were much more centralized compared to before, so much easier to run around between back-to-back events. The tests I took were also awesome (Dynamic test was probably the hardest test I've ever taken, in terms of both content and pacing ). One very major complaint that I had though, and maybe Chalker could help answer this, since he posted the question earlier... Who the heck chose the venue for Helicopters? For sure the worst venue I've ever flown in, despite there being many other spots (including the original location) being much better. Obstructed ceiling, sloped ceiling, not to mention the tarp trap that got several helicopters permanently stuck. Our team got lucky on our first flight by not hitting anything besides brushing the curtain on the way down, and we got 2:17, pulling first place, but on our second flight, as many teams did, it failed due to all of the obstructions around the venue. There was basically a ~10-15 foot wide spot on the ceiling that you had to plant the helicopter to avoid complete oblivion of your helicopter, and regardless of how well your helicopter is built, that can be difficult to execute when the ceiling is 30' high. Then, if you managed to plant your helicopter on the ceiling, it would probably begin drifting towards the curtain due to the slope of
the ceiling, and it would be a game of luck on it's descent. I personally saw Solon go before us and fail their second flight due to hitting ceiling obstructions. Overall, well-run tournament this year, but this is one major flaw that I (and probably many other teams) am having trouble comprehending.

Seems like... NJ again........... except this one was counted? Just as a question for the future, is there going to be an overarching rule because teams are getting super competitive and close such that 1 point (NJ) or 2 points (OH) can determine who goes to nationals or who doesn't. This amount of variability really shouldn't be on the competitor's minds because I feel it destroys the spirit of competition and makes a stressful day way more stressful. An overall set of clarifications/rules on what venue can be used would be great, rather than a suggestion I guess?

One of the things many people don't realize is that when it comes to putting on a tournament there typically isn't a single person that can just make a decision and have everyone else 'follow orders'. The situation with the Helicopters venue at OSU is a perfect example of that, in that there were a LOT of competing interests involved. As I indicated earlier, we were having issues locating a venue that was acceptable to the event supervisor and also that we'd be allowed to use. A LOT of the various building coordinators on campus outright refused to allow us to utilize their buildings for fear of setting off sprinkler heads (despite repeated attempts to assure / demonstrate to them this was a highly unlikely risk). There were VERY high level conversations that went on, but at the end of the day a large organization like OSU has a lot of bureaucracy that is difficult to penetrate over a relatively minor issue like this.

The particular venue that was used was finalized about a week ago as the 'best choice out of a whole bunch of bad options'. Everyone agreed it was far from ideal, but the alternative was to not run the event at all. From a national perspective, we can issue all the guidance we want about venue requirements, but at the end of the day sometimes it comes down to either skipping the event altogether (which a lot of people would be upset about) or using a less than ideal venue (which a lot of people would be upset about).

As a final note, we were trying to be somewhat transparent about the issues related to this. I posted here asking for advice, and quite a few coaches / event supervisors were consulted for their opinions. To a certain extent, this actually makes Science Olympiad that much more realistic, in that when it comes to 'real world' science and engineering, you don't always get to have the ideal environment and parameters.

[dhdarren]

One of the things many people don't realize is that when it comes to putting on a tournament there typically isn't a single person that can just make a decision and have everyone else 'follow orders'. The situation with the Helicopters venue at OSU is a perfect example of that, in that there were a LOT of competing interests involved. As I indicated earlier, we were having issues locating a venue that was acceptable to the event supervisor and also that we'd be allowed to use. A LOT of the various building coordinators on campus outright refused to allow us to utilize their buildings for fear of setting off sprinkler heads (despite repeated attempts to assure / demonstrate to them this was a highly unlikely risk). There were VERY high level conversations that went on, but at the end of the day a large organization like OSU has a lot of bureaucracy that is difficult to penetrate over a relatively minor issue like this.

The particular venue that was used was finalized about a week ago as the 'best choice out of a whole bunch of bad options'. Everyone agreed it was far from ideal, but the alternative was to not run the event at all. From a national perspective, we can issue all the guidance we want about venue requirements, but at the end of the day sometimes it comes down to either skipping the event altogether (which a lot of people would be upset about) or using a less than ideal venue (which a lot of people would be upset about).

As a final note, we were trying to be somewhat transparent about the issues related to this. I posted here asking for advice, and quite a few coaches / event supervisors were consulted for their opinions. To a certain extent, this actually makes Science Olympiad that much more realistic, in that when it comes to 'real world' science and engineering, you don't always get to have the ideal environment and parameters.

I understand the process that goes into a choosing a venue for all of the events, and I am thankful for your response. I just had trouble understanding why the event supervisor chose Jesse Owens out of the options available; based on your earlier post asking about suggestions, you mentioned the foyers of the buildings, and there was also the original site, Hitchcock 151. During Hovercraft (which was in Hitchcock 151), I took a quick look around the room, and it appeared to be much more suitable than the final location, with a relatively high ceiling and a slope no worse that that of Jesse Owens. I assumed that permission had already been granted for these sites, and it was a matter of which one to choose, although I now understand that I may have misinterpreted it.

[Raleway]

@Chalker,
I understand the pain of working out room reservations (past experience at trying to do so), but even running helicopters in an empty classroom would be better in my opinion (assuming most classrooms are bare ceilings and have a flat roof plus many fewer obstructions). That sort of environment would be much less variable in my opinion- although the event is much less spectacular.

[chalker]

I assumed that permission had already been granted for these sites, and it was a matter of which one to choose, although I now understand that I may have misinterpreted it.

We thought we had permission, but once we tried to finalize any of the options I previously listed, several of the building coordinators balked and effectively revoked it.

@Chalker,
I understand the pain of working out room reservations (past experience at trying to do so), but even running helicopters in an empty classroom would be better in my opinion (assuming most classrooms are bare ceilings and have a flat roof plus many fewer obstructions). That sort of environment would be much less variable in my opinion- although the event is much less spectacular.

The same answer applies. There are a whole bunch of classrooms on campus that are in the 'general' pool. We were explicitly told by the various facilities coordinators they would NOT allow us to use any of them for this particular event due to concerns over setting off a fire sprinkler. That left us to try to secure a space that is under departmental control, and which we struck out on several requests. Frankly, we just ran out of time and energy on this issue. Given some more time we might have been able to find some obscure department with a classroom that they'd let us utilize, but after burning so much energy on this, and when the Jesse Owen North facility was offered up, we decided it was the 'best choice out of worst options'.

Note also, that your assumption about classrooms having bare ceilings isn't really valid. I personally looked at a ton of room ceilings and was surprised at how cluttered they were. The most common issue was that they had fluorescent fixtures with open mirrored grids instead of the translucent panel you see a lot of places. And virtually all of them had projectors and speakers mounted in various places since those are standard now across campus.

[Raleway]

@Chalker
Oh sorry then Most of the rooms in the tournaments I've been in at Universities have been clean ceilings. Unfortunate that this would happen at this level

[AlbatrossTree]

I assumed that permission had already been granted for these sites, and it was a matter of which one to choose, although I now understand that I may have misinterpreted it.

We thought we had permission, but once we tried to finalize any of the options I previously listed, several of the building coordinators balked and effectively revoked it.

@Chalker,
I understand the pain of working out room reservations (past experience at trying to do so), but even running helicopters in an empty classroom would be better in my opinion (assuming most classrooms are bare ceilings and have a flat roof plus many fewer obstructions). That sort of environment would be much less variable in my opinion- although the event is much less spectacular.

The same answer applies. There are a whole bunch of classrooms on campus that are in the 'general' pool. We were explicitly told by the various facilities coordinators they would NOT allow us to use any of them for this particular event due to concerns over setting off a fire sprinkler. That left us to try to secure a space that is under departmental control, and which we struck out on several requests. Frankly, we just ran out of time and energy on this issue. Given some more time we might have been able to find some obscure department with a classroom that they'd let us utilize, but after burning so much energy on this, and when the Jesse Owen North facility was offered up, we decided it was the 'best choice out of worst options'.

Note also, that your assumption about classrooms having bare ceilings isn't really valid. I personally looked at a ton of room ceilings and was surprised at how cluttered they were. The most common issue was that they had fluorescent fixtures with open mirrored grids instead of the translucent panel you see a lot of places. And virtually all of them had projectors and speakers mounted in various places since those are standard now across campus.

I'm very surprised that there was concern a helicopter would set off a sprinkler. The sprinkler typically needs to be broken or have a piece of plastic in it melted in order to be set off. helicopters have been hitting sprinklers all year with none that I know of being set off.

I would assume that the flat ceilings of the racquetball courts were not able to be reserved?