Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

zbuilder
Member
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:01 pm
Division: C
Contact:

Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby zbuilder » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:23 pm

I have been DQed twice at Nationals, both times I would have gotten first place in the respective event had it not been for the DQ. I was wondering what kind of things people are getting DQed for and if they feel it was justified? I am also curious about how often you were able to successfully appeal a DQ? Finally, how often have you had another team appeal your device or event, even after the Event Coordinator saw nothing wrong with it?

User avatar
jazzy009
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:12 pm
Division: Grad
State: -
Location: AJAX Chat
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby jazzy009 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:29 pm

zbuild- what did you get DQed for? in any case, thats a major bummer.

ive never been DQed at nats but i did get DQed at an invite this year. my partners cell phone went off. anyway, also last year a DQ for boomilever. it took the entire night before to make it (cramming doesnt work all the time) and it didnt fit the rules...forgot to measure it. it wouldve medaled but oh well.
Call me coach.

User avatar
ichaelm
Member
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:10 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Location: CWRU, Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby ichaelm » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:39 pm

I have to wonder: what were you disqualified for? I'm assuming that the only way you could know that you would have come in first would be if it was a building event, and if it was a building event then I'm assuming that you used a similar device for regionals and states, and that you weren't disqualified for those competitions (otherwise you probably wouldn't have made it to nationals), so I'm curious as to what happened.

I've almost been disqualified once, but my partner was able to pull it off without me: http://scioly.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36&p=13523&hilit=shorts#p13523

User avatar
jazzy009
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:12 pm
Division: Grad
State: -
Location: AJAX Chat
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby jazzy009 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:47 pm

Not necessarily ich. you can get disqualified for a bunch of reasons...that should never get you DQed, though i understand. and then there are some like events that you are allowed to bring a specific book, you could bring a different one... i knew a team in my conference that did that last year, they thought the suggested book was bad.
Call me coach.

User avatar
ichaelm
Member
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:10 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Location: CWRU, Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby ichaelm » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:50 pm

Umm, did I ever specify or imply the reasons for the disqualification? Or am I missing something.

User avatar
jazzy009
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:12 pm
Division: Grad
State: -
Location: AJAX Chat
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby jazzy009 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:18 pm

i think... you can know that you wouldve come in first in a study or lab event. sometimes you get DQed near the end and sometimes you just take the test with the dq and end up in the second tier for it. the instructors know where you would have placed and the nice ones tell you if you did a good job and were just unlucky.
Call me coach.

User avatar
ichaelm
Member
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:10 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Location: CWRU, Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby ichaelm » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:02 am

Oh.

User avatar
WrightStuffMonster
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:56 am
Division: Grad
State: AK
Location: the semi frozen arctic
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby WrightStuffMonster » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:42 am

In the building events I have participated in at nationals I have found that the vast majority of the event supervisors are very knowledgeable in the events and while quite strict, the event supervisors generally err on the side of the students if they are unsure. I dont think they would DQ someone without good reason.
Image-Alaska
Eagle River High School Class 09
Nationals:
1st Wright Stuff Kansas 07
1st Robot Ramble Washington D.C. 08
Stanford University Class 2013

Glacierguy1
Member
Member
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:08 pm
Division: Grad
State: NY
Location: LI,NY
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed and felt it was wrong

Postby Glacierguy1 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:00 am

My Partners Cell phone went off in the middle of oceanography during States last year. I think we might have been DQed if the Event supervisor hadn't noticed that I would have thrown him out the window if he got us DQed.

The previous year I was almost 2nd tiered in Wheeled Vehicle in Div. B States because someone misinterpreted the rules about whether the foremost point of the vehicle had to be non moving or the foremost nonmoving point of the vehicle had to be marked. When my coach protested, my wheeled vehicle and about 12 others were un second tiered. However, during the time they gave me a chance to fix the problem, but I was so nervous that I almost destroyed the Wheeled Vehicle in the process.
SAVE OUR GLACIERS.

User avatar
Matthew
Member
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 2:19 am
Division: Grad
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby Matthew » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:49 am

WrightStuffMonster wrote:In the building events I have participated in at nationals I have found that the vast majority of the event supervisors are very knowledgeable in the events and while quite strict, the event supervisors generally err on the side of the students if they are unsure. I dont think they would DQ someone without good reason.


More importantly, they should've been quite clear why you had been disqualified. (Note: I consider DQ to be "do not pass go, do not collect $200" type offenses.) (Knowingly) cheating would get you a DQ, whereas having a device that didn't meet a spec would merely be a technical offense, and get you ranked below other teams who were in spec.

If you're DQ'ed, your coaches can file a protest to the arbitration board. If we don't explicitly state why you were disqualified, it almost always results in an overturned DQ.

For the record, as a event supervisor, I'm currently 13-1 in arbitrations, and the one we lost, we realized we had screwed up before the arbitration board made a decision. We ended up letting the team run their device again to attempt to gain maximum points, which they felt was a fair compromise. We do our best to keep things as fair as possible, while resolving problems without arbitration as a rule. Being that many judges are now also SO alumni, we understand how much work you've put into your events- and we want to honor that as much as possible because it's what we'd want for ourselves.
Image
The Evangelist Matthew Inspired by an Angel (1661) by Rembrandt van Rijn
Oil on canvas, 96 x 81 cm, Louvre

captbilly
Member
Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:06 pm
Contact:

I suspect he was reffering to second tiered

Postby captbilly » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:42 am

I don't think that this kid actually meant that he was disqualified, I think he meant second tiered. Have you really had to actually DQ 14 teams at Nationals? I would think that by the time someone made it to Nationals they wouldn't do something so blatant as to be actually DQed. I also suspect that if this same kid actually got DQed twice at Nationals that he would either have been banned by SO from competition or thrown off his team. I don't think that teams that regularly go to Nationals put up with competitors who get DQed.

What kind of things actually get someone DQed?

Dark Sabre
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 705
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:53 am
Division: Grad
State: KY
Location: Louisville, KY
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby Dark Sabre » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:14 am

Matthew's arbitration record would not have been only from DQs. Teams also arbitrate against penalties they receive and in favor of penalties they thing other teams should have received. So most, if not all, of the 14 arbitrations were probably unrelated to DQs.

From NSO:
Teams should be Disqualified or “DQ” only for misbehavior (to include excessive use of improper or vulgar language) or cheating. Put DQ as raw score and award N+2 points on the score sheet. Also, note on the score sheet the reason why teams were disqualified. Event Supervisors may remove from competition any student(s) whose personal or ethical behavior does not adhere to the Science Olympiad Code of Ethics. This action will disqualify the affected student(s) from participation and scoring in that event only. If any team is DQed or Ranked Below Others, inform the student (and remind the student to inform their coach) as soon as a problem occurs and notify the head coach immediately if it determined after students have left and be sure to list the detailed reason on the score sheet.


The other cardinal sin of Scioly is probably safety hazards, which you are not DQ'ed for:
Any device, which, in the judgment of the Event Supervisor, is a safety hazard to competitors, judges, or spectators, will not be allowed to compete and will be listed as a P (Participation) for the raw score on the score sheet and will be awarded N points.

fleet130
Staff Emeritus
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 11:06 pm
State: -
Location: Mare Tranquillitatis
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby fleet130 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:49 am

Back in the early days of Science Olympiad, DQ's were handed out for any infraction for which the rules did not give a specific penalty. Since the rules defined almost no penalties, any infraction (even minor) could result in a DQ.

At some point a decision was made that a DQ would be given only for "an intentional attempt to gain unfair advantage" (cheating) or for misbehavior(to include improper language). Attempts were made to eliminate DQs for "frivolous" reasons having no effect on the overall outcome of the event. More penalties were defined in the rules and thus the second tier was born. Basically, you would be "second-tiered" for any infraction.

Some felt it wasn't fair to receive the same penalty for "minor" as for "major" infractions, so additional tiers based on the severity of the infraction were added. That second tier grew to as many as 8 scoring tiers in a single event.

The proliferation of tiers made scoring difficult for many regional and state event supervisors and since then the number of tiers have been reduced.

These ideas have been slow to trickle down to state and regional tournaments, and in some cases, may still not be completely understood/adopted.
Information expressed here is solely the opinion of the author. Any similarity to that of the management or any official instrument is purely coincidental! Doing Science Olympiad since 1987!

Jo_squirrel
Member
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:36 pm
Division: C
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby Jo_squirrel » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:42 pm

There was a bridge that was DQed at my Regionals, and I wasn't there when they did it so I'm really curious as to WHY they got DQed.
I'm assuming that the kid that was allowed to balance the bucket with a finger or two was really supporting it and not just stopping it from swaying, so they got DQed?
I'd have been mad if my partner had done something like that and they DQed us >.<

User avatar
gneissisnice
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 922
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:10 pm
Division: Grad
State: NY
Location: Long Island
Contact:

Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby gneissisnice » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:19 pm

hehe, well, a few years ago, I did Food science as a trial event at nationals. The entire event was a disaster. First, my partner and I couldnt find the room, so we arrived a little late. Then we went to the first station, which went ok. The second station, however, didnt go as well. We were asked to use benedicts solution with a banana to determine relative sugar content. Which would have been easy except for 2 things: It's kinda hard to stuff a banana in a test tube, and nothing was given for us to heat it in, since there has to be heat for the reaction to work. We managed to get past that though.
Then came the bad part. We were asked to take crumbled up cereal, add water, and use a magnetic plate and a magnet to find iron. I asked the man who ran the event how much water to add, because it wasnt mentioned. He said it in a rude and condescending way, so I lost my temper and said "Well, it doesnt say that. This event sucks".
Well, when we got the results, we found that we had scored 61. Out of 60 teams.
I feel like we would have done well, too, since the writer was too lazy to write his own event. I found the same exact questions online a few days before, and thus knew all the answers.
Im not totally sure why we DQed, but it probably has to do with insulting the event.
Funnily enough, my partner and I got 4th the year after. Go figure.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats


Return to “2009 Nationals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest