Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

94
Member
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: December 31st, 2008, 7:14 pm
Division: C

Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby 94 » March 15th, 2009, 6:54 pm

Okay, so I think that I have an idea for individual qualification for Nationals.

So, let's use the event "Fossils" as an example.

Depending on how each team does in the event, they (the pair of teammates in the event) can qualify for a next level of competition.

The number of teams to qualify would be determined as follows:

4 - The states that have 2 teams at nationals that are the largest and most competitive
3 - The other states with two teams at nationals
2 - States with one team at nationals with regional and state competitions
1 - States that only have a state competition.

People who were qualifying for nationals as a result of the whole team's placement would not count.

The people who qualify would be able to take a test sanctioned somewhere based upon geographic region- e.g., a mid-atlantic test day for people in delaware, new jersey, maryland, etc..

The top 3 or so teams (as in partners) would be able to go to nationals for that event.
2007 - Regionals: Heredity - 3rd, Metric Mastery - 5th
- States: Oceanography - 5th
2008 - Regionals: Oceanography - 2nd, Metric Mastery - 5th
2009 - Regionals: Dynamic Planet - 2nd, Health Science - 4th (solo)

This year: Egg-O-Naut, Elevated Bridge, Anatomy

starpug
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 932
Joined: April 5th, 2008, 6:51 pm
Division: Grad
State: ME
Location: Waterville, Maine
Contact:

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby starpug » March 15th, 2009, 7:18 pm

Maybe you should look at the all-star thread :|
http://www.scioly.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=258
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

User avatar
dudeincolorado
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 595
Joined: January 31st, 2007, 6:27 pm
Division: C
State: CO
Location: Hope it's somewhere good. :)

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby dudeincolorado » March 15th, 2009, 7:55 pm

I really like the idea, but you forgot to assume that (i know it's horrible i say this but...) people are sometimes just well lazy. and this requires alot of extra work. but i like it
SO stressed!

User avatar
Deeisenberg
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 237
Joined: April 29th, 2007, 7:23 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Location: Stony Brook University
Contact:

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby Deeisenberg » March 16th, 2009, 11:36 am

This is far to complicated, it isn't really feasible.

Also there is only 1 state that I know of that has states but not nationals. That being New Hampshire. Some states have no olympiad, and others compete in neighboring states.
Events: Herpetology, Fossils, Entomology, Rocks & Minerals, Ornithology, Ecology
Nationals 2008: 1st in Herpetology
Nationals 2009: 1st in Herpetology, 2nd in Fossils

Harriton Class of 2010

andrewwski
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 943
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 7:36 pm
Division: Grad
State: -

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby andrewwski » March 16th, 2009, 12:44 pm

No, no, no, no, no. Science O is a team activity. This takes the entire team aspect out of it.
Please read Forum Rule #2:
2. Posts should have a legitimate purpose.

User avatar
EastStroudsburg13
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2986
Joined: January 17th, 2009, 7:32 am
Division: Grad
State: MD
Location: At work trying to be a real adult
Contact:

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » March 16th, 2009, 12:51 pm

Well yes, but its an idea for people who really work hard but no one else on their team does. It would require immense teamwork though, and I don't think it would work.
East Stroudsburg South Class of 2012, Alumnus of JT Lambert, Drexel University Class of 2017

Helpful Links
Wiki
Wiki Pages that Need Work
FAQ and SciOly FAQ Wiki
Chat (See IRC Wiki for more info)
BBCode Wiki


If you have any questions for me, always feel free to shoot me a PM.

User avatar
croman74
Member
Member
Posts: 876
Joined: December 31st, 2008, 5:31 pm
Division: C
State: MI
Location: I was hoping you could tell me...

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby croman74 » March 16th, 2009, 2:10 pm

It's an interesting concept, but like andrewwski said, it takes the team concept out. It would also be very complicated.
My 2010 Events
Elevated Bridge-7th
Trajectory-1st
"Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant?? I'm halfway through my fish burger and I realize, Oh man....I could be eating a slow learner." -Lyndon B. Johnson
Image

User avatar
gyourkoshaven
Member
Member
Posts: 459
Joined: April 14th, 2008, 12:16 pm
Division: C
State: PA
Location: SHHS

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby gyourkoshaven » March 16th, 2009, 2:11 pm

The whole point of Science Olympiad competitions is that you get your place based on how well-rounded your entire team is. If this were to happen, it would wreck the foundation of Science Olympiad being a team competition. I think it should stay as is, and that you should only make nationals if your team is really good at 10 or more events, not just 2 or 3. Not to mention how complicated it would be to set up.
Strath Haven MS:
2008: Regionals-3, States-5
2009: Regionals-2, States-4
2010: Regionals-1, States-2, Nationals-19 :)
2011 (Co-captain): Regionals-1, States-1, Nationals-11 :D

Nationals: Aquifers-37, Compute This-13, Dynamic Planet-25, Ecology-6, Experimental Design-7, Junkyard-33

Moving to C...

User avatar
EastStroudsburg13
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2986
Joined: January 17th, 2009, 7:32 am
Division: Grad
State: MD
Location: At work trying to be a real adult
Contact:

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » March 16th, 2009, 2:19 pm

I know, SO is a team thing, but sometimes I wish I was on a traditionally successful team.
East Stroudsburg South Class of 2012, Alumnus of JT Lambert, Drexel University Class of 2017

Helpful Links
Wiki
Wiki Pages that Need Work
FAQ and SciOly FAQ Wiki
Chat (See IRC Wiki for more info)
BBCode Wiki


If you have any questions for me, always feel free to shoot me a PM.

User avatar
Phenylethylamine
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 1075
Joined: January 8th, 2009, 4:47 pm
Division: Grad
State: MA
Location: Harvard University

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby Phenylethylamine » March 16th, 2009, 2:57 pm

Yeah, SciO is really about the team over the individual (hey, not even the individual events can be taken full credit for by a single person, because they're all at least in pairs). Still, although my team does very well, I can definitely see the allure of being able to compete at a higher level for people who are far more dedicated than the rest of their team. This topic has come up repeatedly, and all the pros and cons have pretty much been listed... the be-all and end-all of which is that regardless of how appropriate or inappropriate such a system would be for Science Olympiad, there is simply no practical way to implement it.
Protein Modeling Event Supervisor 2015
MA State Science Olympiad Tournament
MIT Invitational Tournament
--
Ward Melville High School Science Olympiad 2010-2012
Paul J Gelinas JHS Science Olympiad 2007-2009

User avatar
gneissisnice
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 927
Joined: March 11th, 2008, 9:10 am
Division: Grad
State: NY
Location: Long Island

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby gneissisnice » March 16th, 2009, 3:56 pm

Yeah, I can understand that there might be some individuals who excel at their events, but they are the only one on their team that really cares and does well.
But science olympiad really is a team sport, and besides, it would be very difficult to organize such a team.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats

dontsenditinthemail
Member
Member
Posts: 89
Joined: November 26th, 2006, 9:22 am
State: -
Location: Somehwere deep within the

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby dontsenditinthemail » March 16th, 2009, 4:48 pm

This is a topic I have been going back and forth on for a while.

1. I love the idea of an allstar team because it would make Science Olympiad even more like a Major League sport.

2. I also love the idea of an allstar team because the best of the best should be represented at the national tournament. No offense to anybody, but some teams compete at nationals that wouldn't place top 10 in a state like OH, PA, or NY. Thus, the national competition is really like, and I truly believe this, 1/2 as hard as it could be if better teams were chosen from really competative states, or if individuals could qualify for nationals.

3. On the other hand, Science Olympiad is about being a team. You can't qualify as an individual for the NBA finals, you need your team with you, and in that sense, Science Olympiad does the right thing by not having individuals qualify.

4. There is absolutely no way to get the best people to the national competition because it is too hard to judge the best people. A state champion in a very weak state may not place top 20 at a state with really really competative teams (again, like OH, PA, or NY). The fact is that not all teams are equal, and thus it is impossible to judge people against an always differing standard.

THE BOTTOM LINE: I would rather see 3 TEAMS go from the best states (instead of just 2) than sending individuals to the national tournament. For example, Mentor, from OH, placed 5th at nationals in 2007, and didn't even get to go back in 2008. Who knows what they would have gotten considering they were the third place team at the OH state competition in 2008, and the LOWEST OH team at nationals (as in highest placing, as the OH teams at nationals placed 2nd and 3rd) placed 3rd in 2008. This would not only make 15 people happy (instead of just individuals at a time), but would also garraunteee a more competative national competition for everybody.

User avatar
Phenylethylamine
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 1075
Joined: January 8th, 2009, 4:47 pm
Division: Grad
State: MA
Location: Harvard University

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby Phenylethylamine » March 16th, 2009, 5:40 pm

Yeah, the fact that there can only be either one or two teams from each state makes things vastly unequal, not just competitive-ness wise, but even population-wise (clearly, one team from each division from a state of 16 teams isn't equal to two teams from each division from a state of 561 teams). Is there really that much difference between having 60 teams at Nats and, say, 65-70 teams, from giving the top 5-10 states (by number of teams and/or past performance) one extra team at Nats?
Protein Modeling Event Supervisor 2015
MA State Science Olympiad Tournament
MIT Invitational Tournament
--
Ward Melville High School Science Olympiad 2010-2012
Paul J Gelinas JHS Science Olympiad 2007-2009

User avatar
pjgscioisamazing
Member
Member
Posts: 539
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 3:46 pm
Division: Grad
State: NY

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby pjgscioisamazing » March 16th, 2009, 8:41 pm

I personally hate teh idea of an "all star team" Science Olympiad is all about the team, the school, not just the competition of getting the best in each event from each state to go to nationals. Just my opinion, but science olympiad is perfect as is.
2007-2012. Paul J Gelinas Jr High and Ward Melville High School

Astronomy, Rocks & Minerals, MagLev, Dynamic Planet (E&V), Anatomy (Circulatory), Reach for the Stars, Meteorology (Climate), Remote Sensing, Disease Detectives, Metric Mastery, Pentathlon, Balloon Race, Tower Building

User avatar
sciolykid101
Member
Member
Posts: 359
Joined: January 5th, 2007, 1:49 pm
Division: C
State: TN
Location: Je suis où je veux être.
Contact:

Re: Proposed Individual Qualification for Nationals

Postby sciolykid101 » March 16th, 2009, 9:00 pm

pjgscioisamazing wrote:I personally hate teh idea of an "all star team" Science Olympiad is all about the team, the school, not just the competition of getting the best in each event from each state to go to nationals. Just my opinion, but science olympiad is perfect as is.

The exams vary from competition level. You never know who is actually better. Yeah, I like SO as it is! :D
2010 Events: Anatomy, Astronomy, Cell Biology, Protein Modeling
Looking forward to the '11 SO season!
Tennessee! Image


Return to “2009 Nationals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest