Thermodynamics B/C

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WhatScience?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:35 am

WhatScience? wrote:
arv101 wrote:Is there anyway we can have a mock run of this event or at least for the written test?Just to see where we are?


I have a plan that I am more than happy to implement

1. First, the mock competition will take place on the weekend of Nov 18-19.

2. Anyone interested should all sign up

3. All those who sign up must write a 12 question test with an answer key.

4. Submit all those tests to me by November 15/16.

5. On Friday, November 17, I will pm the tests to all those who signed up.

6. Through the weekend, take all the tests.

7. Submit all your scores. I will average them all, (with everyone being exempt from the test they wrote.)

[I trust that nobody will cheat as this is to gauge your level. There is nothing to be gained from cheating.]

8. Placings will be released.

9. All the tests will be released.

So this way, the tests make it onto the test exchange benefiting everybody but one must submit a test to get access to the actual competition.

What do y'all think?

PM me with your name to sign up saying "I, [insert name here] sign up for the november scioly.org thermo competition.

Send your tests to whatsciencescioly@gmail.com


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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby wzhang5460 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:40 am

When is the deadline for this competition?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:53 am

That sounds great! I was also wondering if you or someone you know could do this for hovercraft?
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:17 am

wzhang5460 wrote:When is the deadline for this competition?

Thanks


All of them are in my above post. Tests should come in to me 15th/16th. Tests pm'd to those who submitted 17th evening. Get back your scores by 19th evening. Scores and placings (anonymous...only you know your place but everyone's score without name will be released) will come out shortly after.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Alex-RCHS » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:08 am

For those using aerogel: are you worried at all about long-term viability? Since it is a powerful dessicant, I feel that it shouldn't be exposed to the humid air in the device. What do you all think?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby LittyWap » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:16 pm

Alex-RCHS wrote:For those using aerogel: are you worried at all about long-term viability? Since it is a powerful dessicant, I feel that it shouldn't be exposed to the humid air in the device. What do you all think?


I feel as though very few are using aerogels. A friend of mine did a research paper on the matter, and ran into very many financial walls. Silica gels are too expensive to be practical for a student-student competition. Exposing the silica gel would consistently throw off your data as it absorbs more water. The gel would absorb more and more water (to a limit), increasing the energy transferred from the water to the gel.


On a side note:

For those who have data right now, what kind of curves are you using to predict your temperature? I have tried all variants of sinusoidal curves, which have a correlation of >0.9999, while more common relationships such as linear or quadratic are consistently < 0.999. Small difference? Not quite. Linear relationships are often < 0.1 C off of the actual value. Has anyone solved this, or has anyone had the same problems as myself? I have about 40 hours of data, with no hope of this annoyance going away. I've graphed and found the relationships between the parametric variables, with little success. What relationships do you all use, and if you have a sinusoidal curve, how did you overcome its inherent challenges? How were you able to derive the parametric variables from the given information? (Initial Temp, Room Temp, etc)

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Unome » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:17 pm

LittyWap wrote:For those who have data right now, what kind of curves are you using to predict your temperature? I have tried all variants of sinusoidal curves, which have a correlation of >0.9999, while more common relationships such as linear or quadratic are consistently < 0.999. Small difference? Not quite. Linear relationships are often < 0.1 C off of the actual value. Has anyone solved this, or has anyone had the same problems as myself? I have about 40 hours of data, with no hope of this annoyance going away. I've graphed and found the relationships between the parametric variables, with little success. What relationships do you all use, and if you have a sinusoidal curve, how did you overcome its inherent challenges? How were you able to derive the parametric variables from the given information? (Initial Temp, Room Temp, etc)

Like Hovercraft last year, I have to use some pretty complex math to be as accurate as possible. Last year I learned basic trigonometry, now I've learned integral Calculus. SciOly is a gift and a curse: your social life crashes, but hey, you're 3 years ahead in math.

I suspect a polynomial relationship of some sort will be the most accurate, seeing as most or all of the thermodynamic equations are non-transcendental. Most likely, you would need to do a multivariable regression (there are probably programs that can do that somewhere on the internet, though I don't know what they are).
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby kendreaditya » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:44 pm

WhatScience how long have you been in Scioly? You seem experienced, but you have made your account this year.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:46 pm

Wait how random is your data, if you graph the points, is it at all linear or quadratic or is it more random and requires higer level math?
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Pizzacats » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:38 pm

Hello thermodynamics friends! I like pizza and i like cats! :D

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:29 am

What is the best way to prepare for the predictions? My partner and I have thought a great deal about this but from all of the ideas we brainstormed, it requires hundreds of tests for accurate results. From someone who has already started testing different combinations with their devices, were you able to find a regression? How many tests did it take you? At what level did you prepare for (eg nationals has many more possible increments that regionals)? How RANDOM is the graph?

I just want to get a feel for how I should go about doing this. Thanks a lot!
Also, how are you guys heating up the water to very specific degrees?
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:39 am

WhatScience, can you confirm that I am in the competition? The mock test you had planned.
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:17 pm

arv101 wrote:WhatScience, can you confirm that I am in the competition? The mock test you had planned.


Yes you are in the competition...I came home late last night from a team scioly meeting...will have everything sent out by noon. sorry
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby JoeyC » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:56 pm

Does anyone know if VIPs (Vacuum insulated plates) are any good? they cost a lot, but supposedly they match aerogel performance and
don't degrade due to water absorption (which allows for more consistent predictions). I would not use those for the main body (PURs w/ R- value of 10 instead), but I want to know if a vacuum plate would be worth it ( cause they're ~$40 a small panel),Thanks!

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:27 pm

JoeyC wrote:Does anyone know if VIPs (Vacuum insulated plates) are any good? they cost a lot, but supposedly they match aerogel performance and
don't degrade due to water absorption (which allows for more consistent predictions). I would not use those for the main body (PURs w/ R- value of 10 instead), but I want to know if a vacuum plate would be worth it ( cause they're ~$40 a small panel),Thanks!


I don't know what you are exactly referring to...could you post a link
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