Crime Busters B

dholdgreve
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby dholdgreve » February 23rd, 2018, 12:21 pm

Mcello5 wrote:
knowthewrightstuff wrote:My team has had trouble identifying the difference between water and hydrogen peroxide since they are both odorless and have the same pH. We have tried shaking them and looking for bubbles, but both liquids bubble for us. Are there other methods we could try to effectively identify the difference between these liquids?


Try putting a few drops of iodine in with it and then shake it. Leave it sit for several minutes then if you see bubbles its hydrogen peroxide. Also try blue litmus paper but the more reliable route is the iodine.


Everyone always looks for a 2-part reaction... yes, I think there is some science behind adding IKI to H2O2... but also look to your other evidence... Did any of your other evidence happen to turn clear when IKI was added? If so, there is nothing in the rules that says you cannot use previously identified evidence to help identify other unknowns... Take a little of the remaining powder that turned the IKI clear and add it to that liquid that you are unsure if it is water or hydrogen peroxide, then add your iodine... which will turn clear because of the previously added powder... be patient... it may take several minutes, but if it is hydrogen peroxide, you will have absolutely no doubt...
Dan Holdgreve
Northmont Science Olympiad

Dedicated to the Memory of Len Joeris
"For the betterment of Science"

Birdmusic
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby Birdmusic » February 23rd, 2018, 5:10 pm

dholdgreve wrote:
shrewdPanther46 wrote:In terms of fibers, my partner and I are experiencing some difficulty. Since we must put animal, veg, or synthetic, is it possible for the ES to use some random fiber such as acetate or acrylic?

Also, tips for ID'ing between types as opposed to figuring out the specific fiber type?

Thank You!

yes,... along with polyester, rayon, spandex, and nylon... Now the good news... It's all synthetic... You do not need (and should not) try to identify the specific type of synthetic... Many E/Ss will count it wrong if you try to be too specific!


Will they deduct points if I put both the type (ie synthetic, animal, vegetable) as well as the specific type (ie nylon, silk, cotton)? (Like: cotton, vegetable)
Science is an art.
Art is a science.

2018 Results
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Crime Busters: 1/2
Disease Detectives: 1/5
Hovercraft (both builds failed, rip): 11/9

shrewdPanther46
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby shrewdPanther46 » February 23rd, 2018, 5:16 pm

They won't deduct but ur not gonna get anything extra unless its specifically stated at some invitational or something

tips for ID'ing between types as opposed to figuring out the specific fiber type?
salty

Birdmusic
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby Birdmusic » February 23rd, 2018, 5:20 pm

shrewdPanther46 wrote:They won't deduct but ur not gonna get anything extra unless its specifically stated at some invitational or something

tips for ID'ing between types as opposed to figuring out the specific fiber type?


Synthetic fibers melt and smells like burning plastic, animal fiber shrivels, smells like burning hair, and usually leaves black ashes, vegetable smells likes burning leaves or grass and just kinda burns and might leave whitish ashes.
Science is an art.
Art is a science.

2018 Results
Regionals/States
Crime Busters: 1/2
Disease Detectives: 1/5
Hovercraft (both builds failed, rip): 11/9

dholdgreve
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby dholdgreve » February 25th, 2018, 6:09 am

Birdmusic wrote:
dholdgreve wrote:
shrewdPanther46 wrote:In terms of fibers, my partner and I are experiencing some difficulty. Since we must put animal, veg, or synthetic, is it possible for the ES to use some random fiber such as acetate or acrylic?

Also, tips for ID'ing between types as opposed to figuring out the specific fiber type?

Thank You!

yes,... along with polyester, rayon, spandex, and nylon... Now the good news... It's all synthetic... You do not need (and should not) try to identify the specific type of synthetic... Many E/Ss will count it wrong if you try to be too specific!


Will they deduct points if I put both the type (ie synthetic, animal, vegetable) as well as the specific type (ie nylon, silk, cotton)? (Like: cotton, vegetable)


You will not gain any points by identifying the specific synthetic, but may be marked wrong if you select the incorrect one... Why risk it?
Dan Holdgreve
Northmont Science Olympiad

Dedicated to the Memory of Len Joeris
"For the betterment of Science"

Birdmusic
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby Birdmusic » February 25th, 2018, 9:39 am

dholdgreve wrote:
Birdmusic wrote:
dholdgreve wrote:yes,... along with polyester, rayon, spandex, and nylon... Now the good news... It's all synthetic... You do not need (and should not) try to identify the specific type of synthetic... Many E/Ss will count it wrong if you try to be too specific!


Will they deduct points if I put both the type (ie synthetic, animal, vegetable) as well as the specific type (ie nylon, silk, cotton)? (Like: cotton, vegetable)


You will not gain any points by identifying the specific synthetic, but may be marked wrong if you select the incorrect one... Why risk it?


Thank you! I think I get it now! Also, what are nonspecific fibers?
Science is an art.
Art is a science.

2018 Results
Regionals/States
Crime Busters: 1/2
Disease Detectives: 1/5
Hovercraft (both builds failed, rip): 11/9

shrewdPanther46
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby shrewdPanther46 » February 25th, 2018, 9:43 am

Birdmusic wrote:
dholdgreve wrote:
Birdmusic wrote:
Will they deduct points if I put both the type (ie synthetic, animal, vegetable) as well as the specific type (ie nylon, silk, cotton)? (Like: cotton, vegetable)


You will not gain any points by identifying the specific synthetic, but may be marked wrong if you select the incorrect one... Why risk it?


Thank you! I think I get it now! Also, what are nonspecific fibers?


I suggest you read the rules before asking the same question over and over again... they explicitly state the 3 types of fibers you will need to identify.
salty

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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby Birdmusic » February 25th, 2018, 9:45 am

shrewdPanther46 wrote:
Birdmusic wrote:
dholdgreve wrote:
You will not gain any points by identifying the specific synthetic, but may be marked wrong if you select the incorrect one... Why risk it?


Thank you! I think I get it now! Also, what are nonspecific fibers?


I suggest you read the rules before asking the same question over and over again... they explicitly state the 3 types of fibers you will need to identify.


The rules also say not specific, as well as the three types.
Science is an art.
Art is a science.

2018 Results
Regionals/States
Crime Busters: 1/2
Disease Detectives: 1/5
Hovercraft (both builds failed, rip): 11/9

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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby ScientistInTraining » February 26th, 2018, 2:55 pm

I am in crime busters, I haven't been able to find fibers without having to buy a new kit. Are they absolutely necessary to get them before my competition?

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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby Birdmusic » February 26th, 2018, 4:16 pm

ScientistInTraining wrote:I am in crime busters, I haven't been able to find fibers without having to buy a new kit. Are they absolutely necessary to get them before my competition?

Probably not, the kit comes some fibers you can get in stores or online. You could also just watch videos of fiber burn tests (https://youtu.be/kb4tCcnA6jo) and look up information about fibers under a microscope so you can be familiar with them. However, it's probably best if you get your hands on some real ones and inspect them under a microscope and burn them if you haven't done that before.
Science is an art.
Art is a science.

2018 Results
Regionals/States
Crime Busters: 1/2
Disease Detectives: 1/5
Hovercraft (both builds failed, rip): 11/9

Anapolis
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby Anapolis » March 2nd, 2018, 12:35 pm

Birdmusic wrote:
ScientistInTraining wrote:I am in crime busters, I haven't been able to find fibers without having to buy a new kit. Are they absolutely necessary to get them before my competition?

Probably not, the kit comes some fibers you can get in stores or online. You could also just watch videos of fiber burn tests (https://youtu.be/kb4tCcnA6jo) and look up information about fibers under a microscope so you can be familiar with them. However, it's probably best if you get your hands on some real ones and inspect them under a microscope and burn them if you haven't done that before.


You could always look for old clothes you have and check the tags to find what they are made of and perform tests on those fibers. You could also go to your local craft store and ask for different types of fabrics and yarns.
2017 events
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crime 5
road 19 (oof)

2018 events
(state/nats)
fast facts 2/11
rocks 2/6
road 7/6
crime 2/3
widi 2/6
wright stuff (lol only did invies)

2019 events
jk im not doing scioly in hs but im still active bc i have no life and ive been involved with it for 6 years

dholdgreve
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby dholdgreve » March 2nd, 2018, 12:41 pm

Anapolis wrote:
Birdmusic wrote:
ScientistInTraining wrote:I am in crime busters, I haven't been able to find fibers without having to buy a new kit. Are they absolutely necessary to get them before my competition?

Probably not, the kit comes some fibers you can get in stores or online. You could also just watch videos of fiber burn tests (https://youtu.be/kb4tCcnA6jo) and look up information about fibers under a microscope so you can be familiar with them. However, it's probably best if you get your hands on some real ones and inspect them under a microscope and burn them if you haven't done that before.


You could always look for old clothes you have and check the tags to find what they are made of and perform tests on those fibers. You could also go to your local craft store and ask for different types of fabrics and yarns.


I went to a local fabric store and bought (yes, they made me BUY them) nearly a dozen samples of various types of material. The smallest amount they could sell is 1/32 of a square yard. Most fabric will probably average around $10.00 / SY, so we are talking about 32 cents per sample, and it is enough to make probably 100 different piece from. If you explain what you need it for, and give them your pitiful sad puppy dog eyes, MANY fabric stores will use this opportunity to just "square up their last cut" and just give it to you... I'm still working on the look, so I haven't been successful yet!
Dan Holdgreve
Northmont Science Olympiad

Dedicated to the Memory of Len Joeris
"For the betterment of Science"

<<rhine>>
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby <<rhine>> » March 7th, 2018, 8:41 am

What would be the best way to differentiate silk from polyester when looking at them under a microscope? Should I just rely on the burn test for these two fibers?
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby Anapolis » March 8th, 2018, 6:27 pm

<<rhine>> wrote:What would be the best way to differentiate silk from polyester when looking at them under a microscope? Should I just rely on the burn test for these two fibers?

you are aware we DON’T need to mention specific fibers, right? But under the microscope cottton is a more twisted strand while polyester is a smooth strand.
2017 events
(nats)
crime 5
road 19 (oof)

2018 events
(state/nats)
fast facts 2/11
rocks 2/6
road 7/6
crime 2/3
widi 2/6
wright stuff (lol only did invies)

2019 events
jk im not doing scioly in hs but im still active bc i have no life and ive been involved with it for 6 years

shrewdPanther46
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Re: Crime Busters B

Postby shrewdPanther46 » March 8th, 2018, 6:53 pm

however, couldn't it possibly used as a nicer more logical connection in analysis? but if the es justs puts like a random synthetic like acrylic and expects u to draw a connection to polyester, then its an oof
salty


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